02 K40, MAJOR problem...what will Kahr do?

[xtriggerman]

Just got a used K40 off GB a couple of weeks ago. Once over, it looked clean so I put my first 6 rounds in under 1.5" off hand @ 30". I realy start liking this gun right off the git go. I put about 50 rounds through it and it shoots just fine and about the most accurate compact auto I can recall shooting. Then I take the gun apart and see how the barrel lock up has nearly no shoulder what so ever! It looks like what little of it was there is peaned away. This lack of lock up shoulder is now putting a peaned out bur on the caming surface where the slide stop keeps the barrel in battery (pictured). If the camming groove peans up much more, this gun may fire as a blow back operation like a 380. The picture with my thumb in it shows a white line that is a slight pean of the barrel imprint on what God awfull little the barrel is locking up on. If your used to seeing twin .050 thousandths deep locking lugs on a "mild pressured" 1911 45 barrel and here, see nearly nothing but tiny lines on a 35K psi gun... whats going on? Only the gun shoots fine with the brass coming out nice and round. I called CS and they said it was a 02 gun and they serviced the gun in 09. They recieved it today. I think they should replace the barrel & slide for nada. I cant believe this virtualy no lock up slide got by them.... What do you guys think they will do?








Here is a fast foward comparison of the new replacement slide and barrel lock up area. Some difference....

[MLESa7990]

I'd be surprised if they replaced anything under warranty since it is second hand and 10 years old.

[johnh]

Looks like massive wear to me, and certainly not Kahr's responsibility. The gun could have seen 200,000 rounds of badly made reloads for all we know. My suggestion would been to have asked the seller to refund your money. When you buy a gun off auctions it is very important to inspect every aspect of it before shooting. If you find anything not meeting description, you should return it and/or file a complaint with the auction if it is not resolved correctly. If the seller posted "as-is", you are likely stuck. This is the risk of doing business on auctions. I have been burned before--I am sure many members have as well. Regardless, that is not Kahr's responsibility and not a warranty item. I would say anything they do is going beyond the call of duty.

[Longitude Zero]

WOW that piece has been shot to heck. I agree that KAHR is under no obligation to repair or replace. However I would contact them and try to negotiate some sort of mutually agreeable solution. It never hurts to ask.

[xtriggerman]

Thanks for the replies. Folks, my point here is, is this a defective slide right from day 1? I dont know what the thickness of a "good" slide should be from the top of the slide to the bottom of the recoil surface but if it in fact was not suficient, the gun should never have left the factory in the first place. I can guess this was a problem 3 years ago when they had it in the shop because you can see 3 dimples behind the gauled shoulder in the slide. Those dimples are probably Rockwell test marks. They may have thought the slide was soft and tested it. Also I noticed on another slide photo there is now a relief cut at the front of the slide barrel channel. As you can see on this earlier one, the recoil edge of the barrel has made quite a ding in the slide where it stops at full recoil. The barrel on my gun shows a flatening pean to the side edges of the recoil shoulder lip. It may be the relief in the slide channel is needed to keep the barrel recoil shoulder from getting peaned down. And thus, starting a deteriorating impact on what small recoil shoulder is on the slide. The bottom line here is, is the design a sound one? It may be but if any one small spec in this critical area is not suficient, the design will self destruct with use As shown here. The original R&D should have caught this befor the gun when into production as a harder recoiling .40. This may not be a millitary spec gun but if infact all the parts in this gun were in factory spec at the time of build, were do you draw the line as to how many rounds the gun is good for befor it becomes dangerous to shoot. My guess is something was out of spec from the git go & Kahr should be able to figure that out and give me an honest apraisal for repair. If this is a XXX rounds throw away design, Im OK with that also. I just want to know where the company stands on that. Its possible the small design in 40 is just flat out too weak for extended shooting. I tend not to believe that since the barrel cam out depth design is cut for a generous recoil shoulder on the slide that just isnt there on this particular slide/barrel. Increasing the relief of the barrel in the barrel channel (as the newer slides are) will alow a greater recoil shoulder contact depth. Other designs have gotten around this by giving the barrel a thiner OD behind the muzzel end. This alows the pitching up of the barrel not to bind up in full recoil position (Colt Officers Model). I figure I will give them a couple of weeks befor I call them. May be at worst I will have to pay up but hope they will have a good used slide I can have.

[Bawanna]

I concur that they have no responsibility to replace anything, not their fault at all but I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if they do replace barrel and slide free and send it back.

I've seen it before. Hope your lucky.

Do let us know what you find out. Johnh is right, I've caught a bad one on the auctions too. Not horrible bad but not what I expected either.

[jocko]

a 10 year old gun , has to have alot of speculation as to now whby it looks like that. WE WILL NEVER KNOW. Wehave seen many many 10 year old kahrs on this forum and NONE ever looked like that in any way. IMO there is to many excessive wear points for this to be a totally defective gun, what caused it, ???agani all pure specualitoon.

If kahr does u any good, IMO it is out of the goodness of their heart for they basically own u nothing. We have no idea how many other hands this gun has went through.

Buying anything used today is a cross ur fingers thing, and on the internet probably even worse. GB should work with you on this gun being u bought it from them, What Bawanna stated could happen to, so before we criticise kahr or anyone, lets let this play out.

I will admit it looks like a real mess, working or not, I would not own it--very long!!! naturaly u would feel they should replace it no charge.. Do u know if this a carbon steel slide or a stainless steel slide???

[xtriggerman]

This is their Black "coated" stainless gun. You know, if the gun didnt shoot so accurately and handle so well in my hands, I would just sell it but my feelings are it is not safe. I would rather take the $$$ hit and keep it than sell it in this dangerous condition. It would be a pain to have shipped it back to the gun shop that sold it because of the process of getting it off my permit and then dealer shipping it. Putting a handgun on a NYS pistol permit is 2 trips to the dealer and 2 trips to the sheiff's office and they are both over 50 miles away during working hours.

[jocko]

kahr just might work something with you to. Partial cost replacement, who knows..keep the faith.

IMO , if it was serviced in 09, I just don;'t feel kahr would have sent back a gun in this condition, so IMO this damage has had to come after the 09 service. Would be niceto know what they did to it in 09 also. course I have seen photos of gun damage when sitting in ones hands, doesn't look near as bad as some photos depict them. I notice the internal wear inside that barrel lug has to IMO throw the gun completly out of timing but u say it works great, so humm so uch for that comment. I have never seen a barrel lug that looked like that but again photos can be deceiving.

It is so hard to blame kahr for a gun that was sold and evidentley used for over 10 years, we have no clue as to how, who or what went out of that barrel. Sometimes it only takes a minor thing on a gun to get out of time and then other things tend to take the brunt of this out of time condtion.

[johnh]

Amen Jocko!

[JFootin]

You know, it looks like someone has challenged jocko's record for rounds fired through his PM9. The difference is this is a K40. Could the hotter 40 S&W rounds be the difference? Or did someone do some over aggressive filing/sanding to round that area thinking it was a good idea? Or is it a defective barrel that was not hardened sufficiently enough on the hood? - Not likely seeing as how it was serviced in '09. But then, maybe it did service as a rental gun at a range and had 50,000 + rounds fired through it with minimum cleaning and maintenance.

I know I haven't seen that kind of wear on a Kahr pistol before this.

[xtriggerman]

I just wish I miked that slide at the "no lug" area for thickness befor I sent it out. That would have given me a better picture of if it was gun or use related when compared to a good slide that shows nimimal or no ware. I did some home work here on the web befor I bought this gun and it toped the list in my major criteria of what I wanted in a CCW. Granted I took my chances with a sight unseen gun but at $479 shipped + the cost of wood grips, I figured Id take a chance. Like I said it top the list in all but price. Maybe I'll end up with a good shooter but not so good a price in the long run. I hope they can do something there after all the measurments are done.

[xtriggerman]

Well, I got my K40 back today. Iv been without the gun for just over 2 weeks. Thats not bad for anything to be turned around these days. Kahr CS replaced the slide with a brand new one and they replaced the barrel with what looks like a used barrel with some miles on it. Im quit happy with how they handled this, who wouldnt be!
After about 40 some odd rounds fired, I can say this barrel is not as accurate as the old one . The old one had a imaculately smooth bore. It looked like glass chamber to muzzel. The replacement shows alot of length wise ream lines in grooves with a couple of tiny anomolies in the lands. Im not sure if I want to buy a new barrel or not. I didnt buy this gun to be a target gun but for SD. Only that old barrel spoiled me....and a new one may be a gamble on if its much better than the replacement .
I had to stone and polish a couple of places on the new slide since it was shaving brass filings into the sear area and I put a heavier spring in the mag catch since the mag came down twice while shooting.
All in all, I think Kahr's CS makes these all SS guns well worth owning. Alot of new guns need a tweek here & there to get them to run well. Kahr may not be immune to a few quirks here and there but CS makes up for any of that.
I tuned a brand new Taurus PT1911 for a guy last summer that had a very large inward kink at mid barrel. I sent the barrel back to CS and it took them nearly 4 months to send me a replacement that was a touched up used one that was also junk (way off center OD)! By then I already fit a Ed Brown match barrel in the PT and had it running fine. I had a full service gun shop for 14 years and I can tell you horror stories from Barreta, Ruger, Remington ect customer service. Thankfully, Kahr will not join that circus IMHO .

[jocko]

uoutta be very very very happy.I have a hard time believing kahr wold send a used barrel with the gun. That wold be a first and being they replaced the lside wit a new one, I wold think the barrel woldbe the same way.Just sayin

either way u came out way way ahead. They really owed the owner of that gun nadda.

[xtriggerman]

A as stated on the invoice "test fired" condition on a brand new barrel would not have put the heavy maring over the chamber and barrel OD. Its used, but it works fine and for a used gun 10 years old, why would they not save some $$ and go with a used for a used? Heck, they gave me a brand new slide! Thats Christmas enough in my book. I still may buy a new barrel & recoil spring. I dont mind doing business with these guys.