Is this condition normal in a K9 Elite?

[G3709]

The amount of play of the slide of my K9 is about the same as yours, front and rear and it has about one thousand rounds through it.

[Bawanna]

I finally dug out my K40 and while it's difficult to make a real good comparison it seems to be very similar to yours. It's definitely not super tight but I wouldn't call it sloppy either.
You might send that link to your video to Kahr and see what they say about it. I suspect it's nothing to worry about but it would be nice to hear that from them.

[Barth]

You might send that link to your video to Kahr and see what they say about it. I suspect it's nothing to worry about but it would be nice to hear that from them.

+1 again with Bawanna.
Send email with video link to service@khar.com and put this to bed!
You will have your answer by Tuesday at the latest.

I love this forum for info.
But Kahr is the real Final Answer.

[ripley16]

I watched your video and then compared it with my K9 and I'll admit yours has a little more play in it than mine, but I have other guns that move as much or more that are all perfectly reliable. Accuracy is based on how the slide and barrel lock together, not the slide and frame. Again, the question to ask is; how does the gun shoot, is it reliable and is it accurate? IMHO, you have no problem here.

[Gunthr]

thanks guys. Its great to have this kind of feedback... I'm going to take that advice and send Kahr the clip today. I'll post their response for anyone who might be interested in this.

[GOOFA]

Gunthr... I looked at the 3 of mine and my 3 are the same. Yours definitely has more play than mine. If your Kahr is operating at 100% and your satisfied with its accuracy I just might leave well enough alone. Personally, I don't think Kahr will take care of that because its probably within their specs.

By the way, what kind of guns does your buddy sell? He must be dealing with custom 1911's or maybe he's a bit jealous. Go ahead and enjoy your new Kahr.

[Gunthr]

Gunthr... I looked at the 3 of mine and my 3 are the same. Yours definitely has more play than mine. If your Kahr is operating at 100% and your satisfied with its accuracy I just might leave well enough alone. Personally, I don't think Kahr will take care of that because its probably within their specs.

By the way, what kind of guns does your buddy sell? He must be dealing with custom 1911's or maybe he's a bit jealous. Go ahead and enjoy your new Kahr. - Goofa

I have a feeling you're right Goofa. My buddy buys and sells anything he thinks he can make money on, or personally likes... mostly rifles like AK's, SKS's and also the modern "assault type" rifles. He has a dozen or so semi auto handguns. He really isn't an expert as far as smithing is concerned, I think he just goes by what his intuition tells him a gun should feel like to him. He equates the looseness to "wear" in used guns.

For example, he finds out through contacts whenever a PD is switching over, say, from Sigs to Glocks. He will try to buy up some used Sigs, and he will handle dozens of them. He will pick the tightest ones, and reject ones that have looseness like mine. He personally expects precision in an expensive gun like the K9. He thinks that my Kahr may be over-machined.

And I'm asking myself, why can't Kahr make a precision fit K9 with all that expensive CRC machinery and all the dedicated employees there?

That said, I have reallly never felt a gun this good in my hand, that after 350 rounds hasn't missed a beat... a gun that I can repeatedly place my rounds wherever I want to, with fast, accurate followup shots. I really dig this gun, and normally when I dig something like this, I'm immune to any kind of criticism of it. But in this case, I kind of agree with my buddy, in that I would not expect this sloppiness in an expensive top of the line gun. That is just my take. It is just a little bit of a disappointment, but I can live with it if they can assure me that this is not a quality or safety issue.

[monkeyapeman]

Typically when firearms have those looser tolerances it helps with reliably cycling more types of ammunition; hollows, flat tip, ball, brass, nickle, aluminum, steel, cheap, expensive, ect...

My MK9 elite is also loose, especially when it is unloaded and de-cocked. Once you load it up with a round in the chamber and full mag it tends to tighten up considerably.

AK's are notoriously loose, but any rationale person will not argue that they are very good guns. Different strokes for different folks. Kahr's are the ****!!

[Gunthr]

Update - I immediately sent the video along with a description of the loose fit to Kahr support. I received no answer. I re-sent it every couple of days to several different email addys from the site for about a week and a half without getting a reply. I finally just called them.

I won't name names, but the support dude with the radio announcer voice was pretending to be accommodating, but he was actually condescending. He was pumping out a lot of happy horsesh*t... stuff like, "your gun is not even broken in yet - it will settle in" (I guess the implication is that a loose fit will become tighter and tighter as it breaks in?). He also used the AK-47 analogy about loose tolerances actually being a plus in that rifle. However, I pointed out this quote from the Kahr websight:

"CNC Machining

Utilizing the programming and tooling capabilities of CNC machining centers, Kahr pistols' main components are precision computer machined to the TIGHTEST UNIVERSAL TOLERANCES. Machined parts, cut EXACTLY to the engineering blueprint, assure proper assembly and peak performance of the Kahr pistol."

I respectfully explained that my Kahr is loose, not "machined to the tightest universal tolerance. (Sure, the AK is a famous, much produced battle rifle with loose tolerances that allow it to run reliably in most all conditions. However, it is also well known as being inaccurate.) I didn't want to talk about AK's. The man was rude, and when logic failed him, he simply talked over me.

I spoke to his supervisor, who was a gentleman. i told him my concern was about the safety and quality of the K9, and the lose of resale value in an expensive firearm like this. He allowed me to send the K9 back to them - on their dime, to check if the gun is within their specifications. They should receive it Tuesday after Labor Day. As I said, I will post my experience, as honestly and as objectively as I can, for any who may be interested.

Gunthr

[Gunthr]

Here is the followup, as promised:

I got my K-9 back from Kahr today. (I appreciated the fast turn-around.)

Inside the box with the gun was a certification that the gun was inspected and fired, and found to be within "factory spec."

To me, this determination does not quite square with the statement on the Kahr website regarding their CNC machining:

"CNC Machining

Utilizing the programming and tooling capabilities of CNC machining centers, Kahr pistols' main components are precision computer machined to the tightest universal tolerances. Machined parts, cut exactly to the engineering blueprint, assure proper assembly and peak performance of the Kahr pistol."


So... I still have my disappointed expectation of a tight gun. Maybe I misunderstand the above statement. But anyway, other than that, the gun is a sweet, accurate shooter, and that is something. I'm going to take it for what it is. And now I have the the answer to my question, and the documentation to prove it, that this condition is "normal" - if I ever want to sell it for some reason.

Gunthr

[desert k9]

IMHO as long as it performs/functions to your expectations (and from my own experience as well as others Kahrs generally exceed the expectations), perceived "tightness" of components is irrelevant.

[Gunthr]

IMHO as long as it performs/functions to your expectations (and from my own experience as well as others Kahrs generally exceed the expectations), perceived "tightness" of components is irrelevant. - desert K9

Well, thanks for your take, desertK9, but we each have our own take on things. I was referring to the amount of play between my slide and frame. This is not something that is subjective. The allowable movement is measured in the Kahr factory. I was expecting a tight fitting, precision piece - as advertised on the website. I was disappointed in the amount of play and I think it can hurt re-sale value. That is relevant to me. I wouldn't care if the whole world had the opposite opinion. I'm immune to group-think.