"Kahr Factory Tune-up Service"

[WildCotton]

Greetings,

Has anyone out there used Kahr's "Factory Tune-up Service?" If so, how was the overall experience? Was it worth the $175 (+ $25 s/h)? Could you tell a major difference between pre and post tune-up? How does this service compare and rate to the work of other Kahr specialists out there such as Cylinder and Slide?

A couple weeks ago, I purchased a "slightly used' Kahr PM9 (PM9094, bull-nose model) at my local gun shop. The sales clerk could not tell me anything about the history of the PM9, only that it was part of a trade-in that they received earlier that day.

The outside appearance was spectacular with just a little wear on the magazine release and one small blemish on the slide. I shot a couple 6-round magazine loads (115 gr FMJ) through it before purchasing and didn't experienced any issues and it was as accurate as I expected.

Once I got home, I took it apart and was surprised to find it completely filthy on the inside. I took my time cleaning the slide, barrel, spring, guide rod, polymer section, etc. I think I did a pretty good job cleaning it and getting it squared away. Due to how much soot and grime that was on the inside of the PM9, I imagine that either it had never been cleaned or had a lot of rounds put through it since its last cleaning.

I went to the range last night and I experienced several FTF issues. No FTE problems. Also, both the 6 and 7 round magazines seem to either not want to feed or would feed the top round at an odd angle. Some times the magazine will slide out with ease, other times it won't due to the top round sticking slightly out of the magazine. (I do not know how to disassemble and reassemble the magazines.)

Since I purchased the PM9 used, I have no clue how the previous owner treated and cared for the pistol. I also don't know if it has been through the entire "break-in" period or not. There is no way of knowing how many rounds have been put through it. It is entirely possible that it is still in the beginning stage of the break-in period or it has had 500 rounds fired through it. I plan to put at least a hundred plus rounds through it this weekend and see how it performs.

If I am still having issues, would my PM9 benefit from a "tune-up?" Should I send it to Kahr (or other Kahr specialist such as C&S) for a "tune-up or upgrade service?" Are there any known Kahr specialists in the Atlanta, GA region? Several gun shops in my area of Atlanta sell Kahrs and have gunsmiths on-site but they only offer general handgun "reliability packages." Is that similar to Kahr's "factory tune-up service?" I think I would rather a Kahr specialist work on my PM9.

Overall, I want what everyone else wants and that is to know that I can depend on my Kahr to be reliable and shoot every time. If a "tune-up" is required to get my "unknown-used" gun to that point, that is what I need to do.

One more thing to consider, as I have posted elsewhere on this site, I am looking into adding the XS Big Dot night sights. If I do decide to send the PM9 to Kahr for a tune-up, should I have them install the XS sights while they are performing the tune-up or does XS do a better job installing their sights?

I know I have thrown a lot out there and have asked a lot of questions. I hope I haven't been too long winded but I wanted to be as specific as I could to get my concerns across.

Thank you for your insight and assistance.

Kind Regards,
~WC~

[jocko]

hopefully uyr using the slide lock lever to load that first round. For awhile it takers practice to hand rack that first round in the gun. Kahrs have stout recoil springs. So for sure use the slide lock lever to load the first round and practie hand racking but don't worry if u screw up , as it takes time to master it but u will.

If it is the blunt noxe version then reaqd the thread that I just posted to anutter person who just bought a blunt nose PM9.,

IMO a kahr tune up os a total waste of bucks. C & S is even worse, More than anythbing I would say ur gun needs some rounds through it and maybe a new outter recoil spring or complete recoil assembly.

Look at the bottom of ur magazine, see that dimple, now push it in with a sumpin and at the same time slide the place back slowly. to keep things from flying out all over hell, before u take that bottom plte off, just slide a nail through that last hole in the magazine tube and that will keep all the parts from flying all overt, then dissasemble and check it out to see if all is ok.

U might wantto view the kahr lube chart for sure and the propper prepping thread to on the kahr tech secion there are some helpful hints there u can check out and o urself.
In my post to theother person ay attetion to that recol part I talked about. If u have the new version in there then just order from wolffs (gunsprings.com) the outter recoil spring for you blunt nose PM9, which as u know I think i tis the bestoof any kahr made today..

Just get back tous with any questions we have more talent on this forum than u can shake a stick at and these guys know what they are talking about to. Just sayin

[Longitude Zero]

1. Thoroughly clean and lube it.
2. Shoot it like you stole it.

Then consider if you want any work done on it. There is NO firearms that cannot be helped/improved by a competent gunsmith. The only real question is what is it worth to you to have it done.

[Alfonse]

New magazine springs are cheap. If you are having FTF issues, cleaning the magazines and new springs couldn't hurt. BTW, they are easy to get apart. Use a pen or something to push on the button on the bottom of the magazine and slide off the base plate. The spring will try to enthusiastically come out from there.

[getsome]

Hi Wild Cotton and welcome to Kahrtalk and congrats on your fine little nine....I agree with the others that $200.00 bucks would be a lot of money for what will be basically a fluff and buff that you can do yourself for nothing...

If you don't have a manual then down load one as there is much good info in there and you really need to read it all...Kahrs have a few things different from other semi autos such as the slide release/lock spring...The magazine is fairly easy to take down and there is a right and wrong way to install the spring and this picture is also in the manual... Several folks found the factory even installed them upside down which will cause problems...

It would be a good idea to get a couple new recoil springs and replace them every 1000/1500 rounds for good measure...A weak recoil spring can cause FTF issues and they are cheap insurance...If after firing a couple hundred more rounds of range ammo through your PM9 it still has FTF problems then send it back to Kahr to let them look at it and when you call if you ask real nice they may even pick up the shipping...

I live in the Atlanta (Stone Mountain) area and I have tried 3 area gunsmiths for other pistol issues and had bad luck with all them...David's Gun room replaced a front sight and reblued the barrel on my Uberti .45 SA and they really botched it bad and the front sight was installed way off center...

I had Tucker Gun try and do a trigger job on a S&W revolver and they lost track of it and six months later returned it and for the life of me I think they didn't do anything as the action was no better than before...While I'm sure there are some good gunsmiths in the area I just haven't found one and Kahr techs will know more about what makes them tick than anyone else so I would go with them...Good luck with your pistol and just keep shooting it as the more rounds down range the better they start to behave...

[jocko]

damn good points there getsome.

[WildCotton]

Getsome,
I've been to David's Gun Room on several occasions, most of which were a disappointment. However, I actually purchased my last sporting rifle from them. Several years ago, I went to DGR looking to buy a Weatherby Ultra Light .270 Rem. Upon arrival, I recognized one of the sales guys (I had worked with him at Bass Pro Shops back in the mid 1990's.) and he hooked me up with a great deal!

A customer had DGR order a Remington Model 700 Mountain Rifle (chambered in the .260 Remington) through Remington's Custom Shop. Upon placing the order, the customer put 30% down but he never came back to claim it. Since the rifle had been sitting for over a year, the sales guy, my old acquaintance, said that I could take it home for the remaining 70% owed. I negotiated down to 50% of the difference but with the condition that I had to buy the optics and mounts along with the rifle. I went with a Zeiss Diavari scope and Leupold 2-piece mounts and rings. I love the set up and find that I use it more than any other rifle in my collection. That .260 has been superb from deer to hogs to coyotes. It is so light, I can carry it all day long and can hardly tell that its slung on my shoulder!

But that was my only good experience. In general, its been my experience that they lack customer service, knowledge, care, and their prices are higher than a camel's... hump. Its a normal occurrence for me to walk in, look around, and never have someone ask if I need any help or have a question...

However, I went by there after I bought my PM9 to see if they could take a look at it and see if it needed any work. I even thought about having them clean it since it was so filthy. After waiting nearly an hour, I overheard the customer in front of me complaining about the results he had received from "the reliability package" performed on his pistol. It seemed that he wasn't very satisfied and was having them redo the trigger work. Which is ironic because later when I asked if their gunsmith had any experience with Kahr, I was told, "He can work on anything with a trigger." I passed on using them performing any work and may never grace their doors again.

(Sorry for the tangent, Guys!)

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Update on my PM9:

I shot 4 boxes of 115 gr "range" ammo through the PM9 this afternoon. I had 2 FTF's during the first few rounds of the first box. After that, no more FTF's! The only mechanical issue I have had since, was when I switched to hollow-points and tried to rack the slide, the slide will jam and won't go all the way forward. I have to rack, rack, and rerack the slide for it to finally close all the way forward. This has happened on several occasions, only with hollow-points (Federal HydraShok).

The only other issue that I experienced today was when shooting (7 yards) at an "assailant" target and aiming at center-mass, I shoot low and to the right. But at the same distance if I was taking head shots I was just slightly to the right. I discussed this and showed my target with a sympathetic sales guy who is knowledgeable about Kahrs. He said it looked like the rear-sight might be off. If this is not the case, I am sure that it is 100% user error and I will get better with time and practice. And if it is the rear sight, this will be corrected by exchanging the standard sights with night sights. This problem will be solved by changing sights and practice, practice, practice!

Now, about the tune-up, I think y'all have just about talked me out of it for the time being. The PM9 seems to be improving with each round fired and working correctly so I don't think I need a bunch of polishing performed right now. I may look into it a little more but I think I will spend those funds on adding night sights.

Unless there are any objections, I am going to go ahead and pop on the XS Big Dots. I plan to send the slide to XS for them to perform the night sight installation. Does anyone have experience with XS in this manner? How long is the turn around time? OR should I send it to Kahr for them to install the sights?

Where is the best place to purchase Kahr accessories? I know there aren't as many accessories for Kahr products as say Glock, but I'd like to get:
- some type of grip cover/sleeve (Any suggestions???)
- magazines and magazine extensions
- is there a "plug" like what Glock has to plug the hole near the mag-well?

That's all I got for now, I think. Keep the advise and recommendations coming in, please!

Guys, I gotta say, after today's trip to the range, I really-really love this little PM9!

Regards,
~WC~

[wyntrout]

Check out the Newcomer Welcome and all of the links there. Watch the take down video. Look in the downloadable manual. A lot of guys get these guns and just take them apart and then have troubles they could have avoided. I'm not saying you did anything wrong, but we see problems develop when guys don't know what they're doing and how different Kahrs are.

$200 for a "fluff and buff" is a waste of your money! Check out the lubrication and slide tear down links... plenty of pictures and instructions. A new outer recoil spring might help... Wolffsprings....

A bike tube grip cover is cheap and will give you a good grip that you can modify to suit yourself. Don't block the magazine well or either side of the magazine catch, though.

For fast delivery and some of the best prices on magazines, try Ivanhoe Warehouse. I've bought DOZENS from them and they only charge $5 per order and use USPS Priority Mail.

And, welcome to the forum!

Wynn

[CB3]

I am not a fan of Big Dot sights on a self defense pistol.

1. At close range, you don't use sights, really, big or little. You have to shoot VERY fast, while moving. Trying to use sights could get you killed.

2. At ranges where you might use sights to your advantage, Big Dots cover up a lot of the target and reduce the precision of your sighted fire.

A PM9 is primarily intended for concealed carry, close range deathly encounters. Big dot sights will not help you.

Polish your feed ramp.

Replace the recoil and mag springs.

Clean the gun and mags real well and reassemble properly.

Lubricate well until broken in.

There are threads on each of the topics already posted on the forum, including a few that start with this topic: http://kahrtalk.com/showthread.php?t=6943

[getsome]

Well WildCotton I'm glad things seem to be improving and I think all your pistol needs is pretty much what CB3 said...When new Kahrs like to run on the wet side so keep her clean and well lubed and it will get better....

The hand rack can be done but it takes practice and a very well broken in pistol...My PM40 will sling shot the first round every time now and thats all I use but with a new gun with less than a couple thousand rounds down range it may take a while for yours to do it consistently and definitely pick up some some new outer recoil springs if it keeps doing the fail to go to battery deal...

Now as for David's Gun Room and the gunsmith service I posted about, to their credit the gunsmith they use is not an employee but a contractor which is true of most LGS and the work performed shouldn't reflect on David's which seems to be a decent shop...There is a fellow there named Harley who is a great salesman, very friendly and knowledgeable and I try to wait on him when I shop there....I am surprised you got any kind of deal from them as in my experience they won't come off the listed price for anything but you did get a great deal your rifle...

For a grip cover look at the Hogue Handall Jr. slip on and they do help folks with large hands get a better grip and some folks install them upside down which seems to work better for some reason...I tried one but didn't like it as well as using a bike inner tube like Wyntrout said as it is sticky without adding width...Some folks here like the A-grip so look at them also...

As for the shooting to the right thing it may be the sights are off a little so let a couple other good shooters try it and see if the problem remains or changes between shooters....A common problem with right handed shooters is to pull low and left especially shooters with large hands....I have small to medium hands and found that if I use a lot more trigger finger up to the first joint I stopped the low left stuff...

These aren't target pistols but are capable of excellent accuracy in a good shooters hand but practice practice practice is required....As for sights, thats purely personal...I think there are some here that have the Big Dots and like them but thats up to you...I sent my slide to Trijicon and had a yellow front and green rear night sights installed and that works well for me...The folks at Trijicon are very nice and the turn around was like 10 days or so...Sorry for the long post but folks here at Kahrtalk always like to help out a new Kahr guy any way we can....Good luck to another Jaw Ja guy and shoot um up!!!

[AC7880]

Just a note on the slingshot method: you pull all the way back, then release cleanly letting the spring move the slide forward. Done cleanly, it has the same effect as locking the slide back then releasing.

What does not work well is racking the slide both back and forward with your hand on the slide for the forward movement to chamber the round.

[jocko]

no doubt the best method is the push/pull racking. Pushing forward with one hand while pulling back the slide witht he other hand. Opposite forces works better than just a death grip and merely pulling back the slide and releasing. Just sayin

[WildCotton]

GetSome,
I apologize for the blanket statement about DGR. But as I said, the majority of my visits there for the purpose of looking for a new firearm, left a lot to be desired. I'm sure they do the best that they can and the fact that they've been around for so many years is a testimony to the fact that they must be doing something right. I like to give positive feedback when someone does a good job so I will add that the gunsmith(s) at DGR did an excellent job installing Trijicon night sights to two of my Glocks (23 and 19). Those installs were performed years ago and are still working flawlessly.

All,
Thanks for the continued feedback and comments. I have learned from each and every post. At this point, I am trying to be a sponge and soak up as much information about Kahr and the PM9.

I stopped by the range again at lunch today and put another box through my PM9. No failures. Same as yesterday, when I aimed at the "center mass" area of the target, I tended to hit low and to the right. When aiming at the "head," I was still hitting a little to the right. If I purposely aimed a little to the left, I hit dead center of the "head." I actually took a break and asked one of the employees in the shop if he would take a couple shots and see if he would have similar results (I asked if he would shoot it for me. I didn't mention how I was shooting because I didn't want to influence his aiming.) but he declined my offer b/c he said that they didn't have enough employees on the floor at that time. I'll make sure that next time I go to the range, I go at a less-busy time and see if I can have someone other than myself shoot the PM9 and see if they get the same results.

Its worth mentioning that after I completed my range session, I was poking around, looking at some other pistols and spoke with a different salesman, who happens to be a shooting instructor. I told him how I was hitting low and to the right. He said that I may be "using too much trigger finger" and that could possibly be my problem. (Does this sound plausible?) He then tried to sign me up for taking one of his instructional classes...

As far as grips / grip sleeves, I need something relatively slim, as I do not have large hands. FYI, most gloves I purchase are either Medium or Small. I have seen in several videos on YouTube, pistols with what looks like a simple WIDE rubber band that goes around the grip. I'm not sure if this is a product available on the market or a home-made concoction.

Before it is suggested, I do not think that I am interested in a product like Talon's "Grip Tape." I don't want to put a permanent adhesive product on the grip. I am wanting to make the grip a little friendlier feeling.

Also, after reading a couple of the posts, I am no longer completely sold on the XS Big Dots. Back to the drawing board...

Sorry for another LOOOOONG post. But you guys are really helping me out with all of your knowledge and experience. Keep it coming!

Kind Regards,
~WC~

[Bawanna]

A hunk of innertube or a qwik grip will fix your grip perfectly. The too much finger is very viable and could be the case.

Many new Kahr shooters shoot low and left until they get used to the trigger. I'm certain its just the finger as mention or unfamiliarity, and not the gun.

Give it time and I think it will fix itself.

[getsome]

The inner tube deal works well for me...I went to wally world and bought a 26 inch bike tube and started experimenting...If you cut a piece about the size you want then turn it inside out it gets rid of the ridge in the rubber and is smoother to the hand but still sticky just be sure to wash it with dish soap to get rid of the powder sticking to the rubber...I had to cut several before I got it just the right size and shape and still have several feet of tube left over...total cost about 6 bucks...You have to work with it a bit to slide it onto the grip but once there it will stay and not need any adhesive...

I liked how the Hogue Handall Jr felt alright but since I right front pocket carry the extra width caused it to stick inside the pocket and made it hard to draw but the tube deal works fine and really helps with the Kahr cheese grater grip they have...Give it a try and if you hate it you haven't lost anything....

What range do you shoot at WildCotton?....What the instructor said about too much trigger finger can be a problem on a target or full size gun and you should be only using the pad of the index finger to squeeze with but I find with the PM size guns trying to use that method I just cant get a comfortable grip but if I use more trigger finger up to the first joint I get a much better, tighter more consistant grip and am able to pull the smooth but LONG Kahr trigger and shoot much better groups....I feel good to keep most shots on a paper plate size target at 6-7 yards and thats more than good enough for me and my old eyes...