Ammo that Feeds or Fails (Pictures Please)

[AFCop]

AFC, do you have more than 1 magazine? I'm wondering if the feed lips of your magazine might be part of the problem. I have 3 magazines and they all feed that cartridge just fine.

Just to clarify regarding the pic showing the round angled off to the right, is that round jammed in that position?

How about the pic showing the round partially inserted into the chamber; is that round jammed?

A weak magazine spring will cause the round to tip down and jam on the feed ramp.

The pic showing the round angled to the right is jammed. After I took that picture, I pulled the slide to the rear the round popped up into place, I released the slide and it loaded as normal.

The other picture is not of a jam, the slide is locked back. I was just showing that the rounds are in proper allignment and ready to go into the chamber.

What do you think could be wrong with the feed lips? How would I check that?

I will buy another magazine and also replace the springs in the two that I have. Thank you for your reassurance that this round will work.

[AFCop]

Could it be that the magazine catch is restricting the bullets from moving up and causing the top round to tilt down as it is loaded?

I smoothed the mag follower but is sure looks like the rounds are awfully close to the mag catch opening.

[JERRY]

Could it be that the magazine catch is restricting the bullets from moving up and causing the top round to tilt down as it is loaded?

I smoothed the mag follower but is sure looks like the rounds are awfully close to the mag catch opening.

again, this is a magazine issue. notice how you can easily nose dive the top round in your magazine with your finger/thumb... this problem has been eliminated in average quality 1911s by using Wilson combat magazines....

[AFCop]

again, this is a magazine issue. notice how you can easily nose dive the top round in your magazine with your finger/thumb... this problem has been eliminated in average quality 1911s by using Wilson combat magazines....

Is there a fix?

[JERRY]

Is there a fix?

not without properly redesigned magazines from the beginning. you might get lucky by machining enough here and there to make things run rights....


while im sure there are more good guns out there than there are bad ones, the bad ones usually have a magazine issue. because the magazine design hasn't been changed it takes machining on the feed-ramp and other places to compensate.


I really wish Kahr would get somebody else to make their magazines.

[JERRY]

I agree, it looks like the round is pushed to the right and binding on the right side of the ramp. I also agree that the rounds are possibly bumping the slide lock as the slide occasionally locks back with rounds in the magazine.

However the weapon feeds 100% when manually cycled and the rounds push straight in. Judging from this view of the weapon, the slide stop shouldnt affect the round that is in line for feeding.

I have a spare slide stop and have been sanding the current slide stop in an attempt to stop the premature slide lock. I may just sand it off/flush and see how it does.

What are your thoughts?

(Click for a larger picture)

this picture shows the slide stop is not anywhere in contact with the round that is to be fed into the chamber. I would eliminate the slide stop as the culprit.


bent magazine lips will allow a round to move out of alignment as will a poorly made follower. check to see if the magazine lips and body are concentric. I still say its the magazine.

[AFCop]

bent magazine lips will allow a round to move out of alignment as will a poorly made follower. check to see if the magazine lips and body are concentric. I still say its the magazine.

The magazine lips dont appear bent. They line up straight with the shell casing and also look parallel to each other.

[mtnwinds]

AFC, I'll bet if you replace the magazine spring that round will feed. After learning that the round angled to the right is a jam, I no longer think the slide lock if causing your problem. Like I said, I've fed that round from every one of my 3 magazines & yours will eventually work also. That round is nose diving into the ramp and being pushed to the right by the slide. I'd be willing to bet joco's Harley on it!

[mtnwinds]

Oops, I may have been premature in my assessment. Wouldn't be the first time. I stumbled on this thread on a 1911 forum and think it may shed some light on what's going on with your pistol AFC. We've been focusing on the magazine or the slide lock when they may actually only be symptoms pointing to the real problem.

The problem may be that Kahr is not maintaining a high enough level of quality control in machining either the barrel or the frame. Since the barrels are made in Germany (Walther?) I suspect the problem lies with the machining of the frame.

The bottom line is that the various angles discussed in the above thread have to be maintained in order to insure correct feeding. Obviously, the angles would be different for Kahr than they are for a 1911. I don't know if anyone has a print showing the comparable angles for Kahr. Here's the print for the 1911.



Perhaps we could do some measuring of our K40 pistols and see what variances we come up with?

The author of the pertinent post says, "I strive to build guns that function with any quality ammo, delivered via any quality magazine. Some manufacturers and smiffs suggest a short list of ammo through an even shorter list of magazines."

These Kahr pistols have to meet that basic standard to be considered 'quality pistols'. I will never keep a pistol that has to be limited to only certain ammo or certain magazines.

One way to determine if it's your barrel or frame is to send me your barrel & I'll shoot it in my frame. If it works, we know the problem is your frame; if it doesn't it is most likely the barrel. I could then send you my barrel to see if it works in your frame.

[berettabone]

The noses on the ammo you are using, do look very blunt in the picture. I use the Fed HST tactical in 9mm, and the noses are more tapered.

[jocko]

the b arrels

Oops, I may have been premature in my assessment. Wouldn't be the first time. I stumbled on this thread on a 1911 forum and think it may shed some light on what's going on with your pistol AFC. We've been focusing on the magazine or the slide lock when they may actually only be symptoms pointing to the real problem.

The problem may be that Kahr is not maintaining a high enough level of quality control in machining either the barrel or the frame. Since the barrels are made in Germany (Walther?) I suspect the problem lies with the machining of the frame.

The bottom line is that the various angles discussed in the above thread have to be maintained in order to insure correct feeding. Obviously, the angles would be different for Kahr than they are for a 1911. I don't know if anyone has a print showing the comparable angles for Kahr. Here's the print for the 1911.



Perhaps we could do some measuring of our K40 pistols and see what variances we come up with?

The author of the pertinent post says, "I strive to build guns that function with any quality ammo, delivered via any quality magazine. Some manufacturers and smiffs suggest a short list of ammo through an even shorter list of magazines."

These Kahr pistols have to meet that basic standard to be considered 'quality pistols'. I will never keep a pistol that has to be limited to only certain ammo or certain magazines.

One way to determine if it's your barrel or frame is to send me your barrel & I'll shoot it in my frame. If it works, we know the problem is your frame; if it doesn't it is most likely the barrel. I could then send you my barrel to see if it works in your frame.

are not made in germany. They come to Kahr in 3ft blanks bored and rifled by Lothar but kahr does the actual machining of the barrel as to how we see it today Just sayin

No doubt u would never own a Rohbaugh R9 then, or for that matter the Kimber solo..

[mtnwinds]

You got that right, Jocko. I never would own either of those pistols. Any pistol that has to have a special diet is not going to find a home with me. I know a lot of folks like Kimber but I got my fill of them many years ago.

Didn't know that about the barrels. I had read somewhere that they were made be Walther. Appreciate the information.

A quality firearm should reliably feed any quality ammo. Period. The fact that mine does and AFC's does not clearly points to a quality control issue. His pistol is expensive, good looking, and unreliable. A Hi-Point is cheap, ugly, and reliable. So, what's the difference between AFC's expensive K40 and a $150.00 Hi Point? The Hi-Point is reliable. Read this review! How can the folks at Hi-Point get it right while Kahr struggles?

The only reason I'm working with my Kahr pistols is because they seem to be the best available single stack pistols with features that I want. I won't know for a while yet whether or not Kahr pistols will remain in my inventory but it's looking good for the CW9. While my K40 reliably eats whatever I feed it, it is the only pistol I've ever fired that hurts my fingers and I will probably be sending it down the road. I haven't had my CW45 long enough to form an opinion yet.

To me there is nothing magical about a name whether it's Colt, Kimber, Kahr, or any gun with 'snob' appeal. AFC has a right to expect that his K40 will feed a common duty round. To tell him to accept that it won't and he should use some other style of ammunition is ludicrous. If the emperor has no clothes it needs to be exposed, not covered up! Just my 2¢.

[tony k]

Is there any copper discoloring on the slide lock? If there is, then bullets are definately contacting it and getting deflected as they cycle.

Maybe try cycling a few mags by hand then check for copper marks.