Dilemma with grand daughter

[ripley16]

Only the K models were made with a standard (long) or elite (short) trigger. All other models come with the short pull, elite, trigger as standard. The all metal K trigger may feel a bit different than a polymer model trigger but they are the same, at least on paper. Check the Kahr web site for an elite trigger for a P9. There is none.

[jg rider]

Only the K models were made with a standard (long) or elite (short) trigger. All other models come with the short pull, elite, trigger as standard. The all metal K trigger may feel a bit different than a polymer model trigger but they are the same, at least on paper. Check the Kahr web site for an elite trigger for a P9. There is none.

I quit. I'm so freaking confused about what's happened since the 90s Kahrs.

[Bawanna]

Deep breaths JG, in with the good, out with the bad, in with the good, out with the bad. OoooooommmmmmHari Krishna.......there feel better.

I got an inquiry in, we'll get to the bottom of this one way or another.

Oh and now I want your Elite too, does that help any?

[jg rider]

Deep breaths JG, in with the good, out with the bad, in with the good, out with the bad. OoooooommmmmmHari Krishna.......there feel better.

I got an inquiry in, we'll get to the bottom of this one way or another.

Oh and now I want your Elite too, does that help any?

mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm...................Hari Krisna

Good morning everyone. I hope so far you are all having wonderful day. Here the sun is out and the birds are singing. After I finsh my first cup of coffee I'll take a romp thru my lawn. Life is good

But first I will tell you all about my enlightenment

Our two 98 K9 Elites were purchase with the optional ELite triggers in 1998 and have a travel of 9/16" from at rest to when they let off the striker. Then there is 1/8" of over travel before they stop.

Our two PM9s purchased around 2004 also have a travel of 9"16" from rest to let off of the striker. Then also 1/8" of over travel

Our newly acquired P9 has a travel of 11/16" from rest to let of of the striker. And no over travel

My son's two newer PM9 also have the 11/16" of travel before let off

So my four Kahrs have 1/8" shorter travel then the newer P9 and PM9s

Did Kahr change the design of the Elite trigger or did they just rename their standard trigger.

I've read that all Kahrs except for the K series have the Elite trigger. Then it's an option


Here's a 2009 response from Kahr to someone's question on another forum....

"Good morning Sir,

All our pistol, with the exception of the K series, have the "Elite Trigger" as a standard feature.

Thank you

Glen Malo
Kahr Customer Service
130 Goddard Memorial Dr.
Worcester, MA 01603

My reply from Kahr when I asked this question earlier this year. "

Please, for the sake of my sanity. Can folks here with older & and newer K9 Elites take some measurements


Now I'm off to frolic in the grass.

TaTa, John


P.S.
And bawanna, you leave my Kahr alone !

[yqtszhj]

Oh and now I want your Elite too, does that help any?

Darn it. You beat me to it. I got second dibs on it.

[gb6491]

Deep breaths JG, in with the good, out with the bad, in with the good, out with the bad. OoooooommmmmmHari Krishna.......there feel better.

I got an inquiry in, we'll get to the bottom of this one way or another.

Oh and now I want your Elite too, does that help any?

Darn, I'm hoping so as I'm getting more confused as this goes along.

I was of the opinion that there are three Kahr triggers:
* please note that the following measurements are from the web, I didn't do any measuring myself

1. Enhanced: 1/4" length of pull with 7.5lb. pull weight
http://www.kahr.com/Pistols/Kahr-pm9-w-External-Safety-and-lci.asp

2. Standard: 3/8" length of pull with 7.5lb. pull weight.

3. NYPD: 1/2" length of pull with 7.5lb. pull weight (see note below in regards to length of pull)
http://www.handgunsmag.com/reviews/the-nypd-and-the-kahr-k-9-no-substitute-for-training/

*Note: I've not seen this on a document from Kahr, but it seems universally accepted on the web and seems reasonable considering the following:
http://www.kahr.com//upgrades-and-service/kahr-k9-trigger-upgrade-cs-item.asp
"K9 Trigger Upgrade (CS ITEM)
The trigger upgrade for the K9 (NYPD) pistol includes the installation of a standard trigger system performed by a factory technician. The standard trigger shortens trigger pull. Firearm will be tested for functionality. All parts are included in price. This is for the K9 (NYPD) Series Only. Please ship the firearm overnight to the factory and include a copy of your order."


As to the Elite trigger: I've been under the impression that this was just an interchangeable term for the "Standard" trigger, maybe even a marketing ploy (I've no evidence of that).
However, after reading jg rider's posts, I wonder if there might actually be an "Elite" trigger.
I used to just brush over this, assuming it was just the NYPD trigger upgrade:
http://www.kahr.com/custom-shop.asp
"K9 Elite Trigger Upgrade
The Elite trigger upgrade for the K9 pistol includes the installation of an Elite trigger system performed by a factory technician. The Elite trigger shortens trigger pull. The Elite trigger system includes a highly polished trigger. Firearm will be tested for functionality. All parts are included in price. Not available in some states and cities.
$125.00 (includes cost of parts) + S&H ($25.00)"
Perhaps, it is something entirely different.

As to differences in feel of triggers of the same type:
There have been changes to certain components over the years that might account for this.
The bottom portion of this photo shows the trigger bar of my older K9 in comparison to the current version of the bar.

Here's a photo showing showing the old cocking cam from my P380 and the replacement from Kahr


Regards,
Greg

BTW, jg rider thanks for taking all those measurements......and the headache

[Bawanna]

But, but, but your granddaughter said I could have it.

Greg, if I ever took my Kahr apart that far I'd have to send you a bag of parts to put it back together.
You've taken me places no man has gone before but I'm not sure I could go that deep in a Kahr.

[jg rider]

Darn, I'm hoping so as I'm getting more confused as this goes along.

I was of the opinion that there are three Kahr triggers:
* please note that the following measurements are from the web, I didn't do any measuring myself

1. Enhanced: 1/4" length of pull with 7.5lb. pull weight
http://www.kahr.com/Pistols/Kahr-pm9-w-External-Safety-and-lci.asp

2. Standard: 3/8" length of pull with 7.5lb. pull weight.

3. NYPD: 1/2" length of pull with 7.5lb. pull weight (see note below in regards to length of pull)
http://www.handgunsmag.com/reviews/the-nypd-and-the-kahr-k-9-no-substitute-for-training/

*Note: I've not seen this on a document from Kahr, but it seems universally accepted on the web and seems reasonable considering the following:
http://www.kahr.com//upgrades-and-service/kahr-k9-trigger-upgrade-cs-item.asp
"K9 Trigger Upgrade (CS ITEM)
The trigger upgrade for the K9 (NYPD) pistol includes the installation of a standard trigger system performed by a factory technician. The standard trigger shortens trigger pull. Firearm will be tested for functionality. All parts are included in price. This is for the K9 (NYPD) Series Only. Please ship the firearm overnight to the factory and include a copy of your order."


As to the Elite trigger: I've been under the impression that this was just an interchangeable term for the "Standard" trigger, maybe even a marketing ploy (I've no evidence of that).
However, after reading jg rider's posts, I wonder if there might actually be an "Elite" trigger.
I used to just brush over this, assuming it was just the NYPD trigger upgrade:
http://www.kahr.com/custom-shop.asp
"K9 Elite Trigger Upgrade
The Elite trigger upgrade for the K9 pistol includes the installation of an Elite trigger system performed by a factory technician. The Elite trigger shortens trigger pull. The Elite trigger system includes a highly polished trigger. Firearm will be tested for functionality. All parts are included in price. Not available in some states and cities.
$125.00 (includes cost of parts) + S&H ($25.00)"
Perhaps, it is something entirely different.

As to differences in feel of triggers of the same type:
There have been changes to certain components over the years that might account for this.

Regards,
Greg

BTW, jg rider thanks for taking all those measurements......and the headache

Hi Greg,
Now I'm confused. What is meant by length of pull. I thought on a rifle it was from the butt to the trigger face.

Oh! I just got off the phone with Kahr tech support.
First the length of pull they talk about is that bit of free travel before there's any resistance. That's not what I know LOP to mean. I'd call what they're describing free travel

All my measurements included that.

Now for the rub.
My 4 older Kahrs have true shorter travel Elite triggers. Now there is no Elite trigger like I have, it's just a name apposed to the NYPD trigger, or the standard trigger. The trigger travel to let offs of the striker are all the same. Just the length of pull, free travel is different.

No big deal ! The total trigger travel is still the same till let off. Did I say that already ?

The optional Elite trigger for K9s is nothing more then what I knew back in the day as a standard trigger.

My wanting to put a true Elite trigger in my grand daughter's P9 can't happen.

Thanks ripley for the heads up about Elite triggers

Oh! I just measure the LOP / free travel on all for of our Kahrs and they all measure 1/8" Not the 1/4" of the now enhanced trigger

The tech I spoke with was claiming that all specs would deviate from guns he pulled out.

I don't think he wanted to hear what I was saying

I've said for a long time Kahr Q.C. and product has gone down hill from what it was.
From barrels that now have plating peeling in the chamber / rifling, to a .45 chamber that I know of that was tapered so it wouldn't allow rounds to go in.

OK I've said enough I'm gonna go back to frolic in the grass

[yqtszhj]

Now what we're all waiting to see is:
Does the granddaughter take the P9?
Does the grandfather give up his K9?


......... tune in next weekto find out.

[Ed M]

jg - the question now is what are you gonna replace your K9 with?

Your old K9 is gonna belong to your grand daughter - because nothing but Grandpa's gun is ever gonna be good enough.

No escape on this one...

[jg rider]

Ah come on guys work with me.

Besides
I've already promised my friend, deputy sheriff that I would turn over my toys to him to surrender for me when the time comes

[yqtszhj]

If you give it to her she'll treasure it forever. You can carry the P9 till you sell it and get a new K9. I'm getting sentimental now.

https://grabagun.com/kahr-k9-elt-200...5-sts-7rd.html - here's a replacement.
https://grabagun.com/kahr-arms-k9094...m-3-5-blk.html - or this one in Black

If it makes you feel any better my daughter took my CT9 in August. I offered to buy her something else as a replacement to give it back and she said no. It's worth letting her have it.

[Bawanna]

So now I need to start sucking up to the deputy sheriff to get any of your toys. I was hoping staying on your granddaughters good side would be good enough but apparently not.

Guess I'll shave my head, grab my blankey, and play in the grass chanting as best I can while sucking my thumb.

[CPTKILLER]

Give it to her or fix her's like yours. Granddaughters are special.

[jg rider]

Give it to her or fix her's like yours. Granddaughters are special.

I purposely got her a polymer frame for the weight savings.

If it were a steel frame then I wish I could, but my eye sight and arthritic hands won't let me do the checkering and other things that are done to mine.

Now that I found out that the types of Elite triggers wife and I have in our four Kahrs are no longer available and their life time warranties, she gonna have to bite the bullet.

Hey bawanna,
Have you heard back from anyone up the food chain at Kahr about the trigger question