Chambering the first round, a slingshot modification

[jocko]

whoi decides that kahrs magazines need re=engineered. Surely not US. They probably have 500K kahrs floating around the country and now a few think kahr needs to go backto tge drawing board???

Does any other gun maker have an offset feed ramp, like kahr does BY DESIGN??? Could this maybe, just maye be one of the reasons kahr magazines are designed like they are??? I don't know that but just surmising, certainly 99% never complain about kahr magazines.

[gb6491]

Personally, I like to think of it as Kahr's half-a- feed ramp (not knocking it mind you), but I don't think that it has any bearing on the magazine's design. That some say they have had no problems racking the slide to chamber a round, doesn't negate that others have reported having problems doing it (why else did Kahr change the procedure in their manuals?). We've also seen that modifying the follower fixes some other issues. If folks still don't think the magazine can be improved upon they are welcome to that opinion; I'll continue to believe otherwise.
Regards,
Greg

[JFootin]

whoi decides that kahrs magazines need re=engineered. Surely not US. They probably have 500K kahrs floating around the country and now a few think kahr needs to go backto tge drawing board???

Does any other gun maker have an offset feed ramp, like kahr does BY DESIGN??? Could this maybe, just maye be one of the reasons kahr magazines are designed like they are??? I don't know that but just surmising, certainly 99% never complain about kahr magazines.

jocko, do you need new glasses or new fingers? LOL! It's getting harder and harder to read/interpret your mangled notes! You're just lucky with that PM9 of yours. There's a lot more than 1% of people on this forum that are having problems. A whole lot more. And I'll bet there is a pretty good percentage of those 500K guns out there that have never, or hardly ever, been fired. That's just the way it is with gun owners. The people on this forum are probably putting their kahrs to use more than most, and they ARE encountering problems. Even real experienced shooters like Greg.

An added note about the petition: everyone should just vote once.

[jocko]

and that is ur opinion...

[FHBrumb]

My CW 45 pulls the top round off of the mag with the sling shot method just fine. When I put in a fresh mag, I grab the rear of the slide over hand, and rack the slide that last little bot, and let it go.

[yqtszhj]

After reading this all last night I thought about doing the mod. Then I thought, let me see how my new CM9 does.

I go get my little friend, drop the mag, unload the chamber, slide forward, pull the trigger. Now to the test.

I insert the full 6 round mag. Pull back the slide and let go. The round chambers fine. I empty the whole mag by the way. No problems.

Next I reload the magazine with the full 6 rounds. I then put it inthe gun and think to myself "what if I ride the slide forward, will it work?" So I pull back the slide, ride it forward like I do with my 1911, the round fully chambers. I did the whole magazine this way with no problems. Reloaded the mag again, same thing with no problems. Those were blunt nose hollow points by the way.

My CW9 would not do this but CM9 does it with ease. Maybe I just got lucky and got one that would, maybe Kahr has it figured out. Either way for me, Kahr is +1.

[jocko]

I am a believer that one should do no mods when a gun is wlrking as it should. I can assure u that your cm9 will even get smoother as you shoot it and things mate up even nicers.

enjoy the cm9, it is IMO kahrs finest little pocket gun at a bargain price..

[FLBri]

First of all, sorry to resurrect a two month dormant thread, but having read it end to end twice I have some input that may clarify some things ... it does for me anyway.

I will also say for the record that I own a PM9 and a MK9. They are fantastic shooters and my favorite guns. The PM9 is always with me.

The PM9 has never fte or ftf once. Not even during break in. The Mk9 has the nose dive ftf issue 1 or 2 rounds out of a box of 50. Hence my interest in this thread.

To me, the fundamental heart of the problem (for those that have one ... some don't and that's great) is that a 9mm casing is tapered by roughly .009 from the base of the casing to the top of the casing just behind the bullet. The more that bullets are stacked, the more that differential is multiplied. That's why the issue presents more with 7 round mags than 6 rounds. Glock solves this (as some Youtube videos show) by double stacking the rounds, allowing them to nest together which decreases the effect of the taper. This won't work in the more concealable, thinner frame, Kahr.

I'm not sure how or why the mod discussed in this thread works, because it doesn't change the angle of the bed of the follower. When the follower is at the bottom of seven (or 6) rounds, I'm not sure how it is 'supporting' the front of the round as the multiplied gap caused by the tapered casing is unaffected. As the rounds become fewer in the magazine, the support IS increased. Don't get me wrong ... I'm not disputing that it works .... in fact I am going to make the mod myself in hopes that it helps the occasional feed issues with my MK. I just can't wrap my head around WHY it works. That bothers me (anal that way ... you should see me with golf clubs!).

The two options that would completely solve the problem, as I see it, is
#1 a mag design that is slightly curved. This is impractical as it would take a redesign and retooling of the frame to accept it (I think).
#2 and more reasonable, would be to have the bed of the follower on a pivot between sides of the same follower. This would allow compensation for the slightly changing angle as each round is stripped from the magazine, and every round would be supported all the way through the stack.

This would undoubtedly be a more expensive magazine by a few bucks .... but, as I think through, a permanent and stable solution. Now ... someone with better credentials than I can feel free to discount my logic with real mechanical engineering facts that shows me wrong. I'm willing to get an education.

[Bawanna]

Certainly no harm in resurrecting this old thread, there some very good stuff in it. The idea of a pivoting follower has been brought up and I think the concept is sound, would take some figuring on the front and rear skirts to allow it to pivot. I'm of course in need of education myself but I like the concept.

Your point of the follower being at the bottom of the stack is an excellent one. The fact that it becomes more pronounced as the magazine depletes itself is also sound. So why the heck does it work? It must allow for the taper to a certain amount even if just miniscule, enough to help a bit.

[FLBri]

The sum total of the taper in 7 rounds isn't more than 3/32". I think the follower has enough play that the skirt front and back would not be a problem. Also, if the mag spring was pressured favoring the front I believe that just allowing an 1/8" +/- of play in the tilt would do the trick.

I wonder if anyone here has enough machine shop skills and access that some type of Prototype could be made. If enough interested people got together to back the experiment, it can't cost THAT much to test the idea. Even bigger visions of a whole new marketing project for a new line of magazines!

[TheTman]

I've been able to slingshot a round into my CW40 and .45 for quite awhile now. I used the slide stop during break in, but now I almost never do.

[Bawanna]

I've always been able to slingshot both of mine.

The concern I have with a pivoting follower is it getting hung up. It has to be smooth and drag free with enough guidance that it won't tip or bind.

Something for folks smarter than I to take on.

[1slinginlead2]

I'm a new member here and i would like to say something. I have just purchased a used P40. Yeah it has the typical nose dive when loading without the the slide release(against kahr's recommendations). It does have the gap between the top two rounds in a fully loaded mag. I polished my feedramp and i can load either way now with no problem,just sayin. It wasn't really a issue anyway since i carry one in the chamber when i carry anyway,just did it as a precaution.

[Thunder71]

Ahh, but it IS an issue in my opinion... Magazines can fail. Load a new magazine and what? Lock the slide back to chamber the first round? Probably not going to be your first inclination when seconds count.

[jocko]

Ihave been of the opinion that the reason kahr recommends usig the slide stop leverto load that first rund is due to the over all tightness of kahrs when new. Bydoing what kahrs asks of a newowner it probably elminates alit of complaints that is actuall7 shgooter error and not the gun. I think once thegun get some rounds down range the recoil spring takes its designed set which helps alo0t and the slide has mated up much smoother also and the shooter himself has gotten accustomed to his new kahrs, for as we have read from almost all, after rounds down range none have any issues in sling shotting that first round. Kahrs are tight, they seem to remain pretty tight and when u add a new setof recoil springs on a kahr, it gets tight again for awhile..