What's your opinion?

[woodman]

Hi guys,
I am new here and am considering the CW9 as a CCW so I would like your opinions. I have read some of the threads here and over at GT in the kahr club. There seems to be alot of problems with Kahr pistols and I want a pistol that is 100% reliable since it is intended to protect my life.

What I have read so far:

Magazines releasing when the should'nt
Triggers not resetting
Plating peeling off feed ramps and barrels
Reoccuring failure to feed
Reoccuring failure to eject
Light striker hits not detonating primers
Cracked frames in magazine well
Defective ejectors
Customers returning pistols multiple times for the same problem

How common are these problems?
Can the Kahr be depended on as an everyday carry gun?
If you had it to do all over again would buy a Kahr?
What else would you consider for a carry gun that is about the same size?

I hope I did'nt overwhelm you with questions I would just like to make sure I am spending my money on a good reliable pistol.

Your opinions are appreciated.
Thanks in advance

[coctailer]

100% reliability cannot be guaranteed with ANY firearm.

As for Kahr Arms pistols, I believe they are the best pistol made in the world for saving your life.

You will probably get a lot of replies saying how great Kahrs are considering this is a forum full of Kahr fans.

As for the problems you listed, I have only ever seen one chamber that had the finish flaking off.

I have never personally witnessed a Kahr fail to perform. I've shot a lot of them, and seen a ton of them shot.

I carry, depending on the day, a P45, PM9, or P380. I don't carry any other pistol, even though I own dozens.

I was pretty happy with my Ruger LCP when I carried it though.

[Jim K]

Just my opinion

Woodman,

I own a P9 and use it as my CCW because of it's size and weight. I had reliablity issues with this pistol when it was new but it works like a dream now. You can read all about it on this forum if you check out FTF and extractor issues.

That written, I must convey the fact that I do not have an all negative view of Kahr Arms and their products. The first good thing I have to say is that they have excellent product support. I recommend that you use them if you have a problem. They are nice people. The second good thing is that the parts are affordable and readily available. The third thing is that My P9 is very easy to carry and therefore will be at hand if (God help me) I ever need it.

Now for the negative, and I mean this to be constructive. From what I've experienced on my pistol there seems to be a QC issue. If I spend near $700dollars on a pistol I expect it to function. In my opinion there should be no "break in" period to make the pistol go "bang" when the trigger is pulled. maybe the action of the pistol gets smoother after 200 rounds but it should work every time while getting to that point. If I have issues with the pistol at 190 rounds then I expect to fire another 200 rounds to make sure those issues are resolved. That takes money and time. If there are issues with my pistol then I expect the manufacturer to supply me with the technical data to make sure the pistol conforms with design Specs. I had no luck with that. I was told they do not give out that Info. With that lack of information I advise all to return their Kahr problems to them and let them sort out the problem. I fixed my pistol by the evidence of it's functionality. I do not advise others to do the same unless they like I, know what they are doing.

I wonder about the secret Specs. What's the secret? Do the specs exist?

I like my P9 now that it is fixed. I will not purchase another unless Kahr publishes all technical data to inspect, assure conformity, and maintain their products. With that information the average man should be able to maintain their weapons. I think that will only improve the good reputation of Kahr arms.

My rant boils down to:

Buy one but take advantage of Kahr's excellent product support if you have problems. Ask them to pay shipping both ways.

Good Luck, Jim K

[mx5fan]

Let's see, I had a Kel-tec pf9 and just could not stand the trigger, the recoil and the constent FTE's and FTF's, I thyn had a Bersa .380 CC and when I could find ammo, the pistol was nice enough, but again I had a lot FTE's and did not feel safe enought to protect my life. I then purchased a Kahr PM9, I have approx. 300 rounds and they have been flawless, not one FTE /FTF and it's easy enough to clean, perfect for concealed carry and I've got to say this is one fine pistol.

If you look around this forum, I think you will find that the vast majority love their Kahr's and have not had any issues with them. That's not to say that every now and then there is a Lemon or a pistol with issues...it happens to the best of the best. Guns are made to specs and within certain tolerances and while they are machined, they are also made by humans....so there can be the occasional bad gun.

If you are thinking about buying a Kahr....do it and don't look back.

They are well made, solid and a great little CCW piece.

[jocko]

No doubt Jim K, you won't be buying another kahr, for they aren't going to give you all that spec stuff that you feel you so deserve. Enjoy your P9, for it will be your last kahr. Maybe you can publish for us Smith and Wesson inside info specs etc, or HK or Sig, I bet they will send you everything you ask for???????

If I don't get my way I will take my marbles and go home, in your case it will be your P9 one and only.Your right about one thing. You do RANT alot...

and a Merry Christmas to you.

[ltxi]

Kahr makes leading edge, intelligently designed, and practical mini/micro carry weapons. That's where they started and that's what they do. There are trade-offs in everything and the price you pay here for ultra compact, ultra lightweight guns at a price one can actually afford is extended break-in/wear-in periods, sometimes less than perfect out-of-the-box 100% functionality, and the very occasional gun where all the tight tolerances just fall the wrong way and it may never be right. I have happily put up with these trades for something like my black, night sight equipped PM9 because nothing else even comes close for its functionality. And, especially within the firearms industry, Kahr's customer service is world class.

But if you don't need what Kahr's selling there may be better choices. For cheap and dead stone reliable from round one, Glocks come to mind.

[500KV]

I think most of the problems you mentioned can be attributed to the fact that Kahrs are major calibers in small packages... close tolerances with little room for error.
They are truly a quality product IMHO and customer service seems to be excellent as far as resolving the issues you refer to.

I have three, in three different calibers, and after putting several hundred rounds through them I'm as confident of them as any other top of the line handgun.

I'm convinced the more you shoot them the better they get.
Some folks have had major issues that have had indifferent outcomes but I think you'll find that most people's experience has been positive.

Welcome and good luck with your choice.

[Jim K]

No doubt Jim K, you won't be buying another kahr, for they aren't going to give you all that spec stuff that you feel you so deserve. Enjoy your P9, for it will be your last kahr. Maybe you can publish for us Smith and Wesson inside info specs etc, or HK or Sig, I bet they will send you everything you ask for???????

If I don't get my way I will take my marbles and go home, in your case it will be your P9 one and only.Your right about one thing. You do RANT alot...

and a Merry Christmas to you.

Jokko,

If getting my way means getting a firearm that works I'll surely consider another SIG, HK, CZ. I don't need technical data for a firearm unless it does not work.I think that Kahr makes a good pistol if you get one that works.

Machines are manufactured to tolerances so that if one mating part is on the high side of dimension and the hole it fits in is made to the low side of dimension then the parts still fit no matter if it is location, slide or interference. Remember Eli Whitney folks?
(interchangeable parts) Just my opinion, but Kahr owes me a firearm that works 100% right out of the box, just like my other pistols. I should not have to rub the parts together to make them fit. This ain't economics, it's engineering.

I suspect that there is a problem with QC and a little bit of data can go a long way to clear up that suspicion, unless someone is trying to hide something.

If you get a Kahr that works flawlessly, then good. That's what you paid for. If you don't then give the guys at Kahr customer service a chance. They will fix your Kahr and get a chance to catalog their problems.

A guy named billy wrote the words "You protesteth too much".

Your a smart guy Jokko, figure it out.

Best Regards, Jim K

[woodman]

Thanks for your replies. I know that the bad stories of any product are more well known that the good just because people talk about them more in order to figure out how to fix them. Most people that have something that works great will only tell a couple people because we expect to work great, but if it is a piece of junk we tell everyone. So I guess that is why I am seeing the stories of the problems.
I just left another forum that I am a member and saw another Kahr report:
Rowdy Biker Bar II
The CW9 is still on my list.

[wagon]

Woodman: I am one of the "unlucky" who has a PM9 which did have the "plating issue". But that's is ONLY issue it has (fingers crossed -- coz nobody has a crystal ball), but Kahr has taken care of it, no question ask. (Although I do have remaining concern, but it is just something philosophical and has nothing to do with any specific Kahr guns.)

My PM9 shoots better than I can, zero jammo, zerro FTF, zero FTE... perfect to CC. Despite of what was said in the above, the PM9 remains as my primary CCW, because it is SUPER comfy to carry, it conceals very well, it shoots true.

I once had a H&K USPc, it was a PERFECT gun (correction: "my" USPc was a perfect gun): go bang everytime for 10+ years and thousands of rounds, NONE of those "cosmetic" issues nor functional issues what so ever. But, unlike the PM9, it does not fit my palm and my built, to me the USPc is still too bulky and too heavy to CC.

Always a price to pay either way we go. Good luck shopping. I have heard a lot of good things about the CW9.

(MX5fan -- sorry to hear about your Bersa380cc... you're like me in the case of my PM9, an "unlucky one" -- i.e. my 380cc has been flawless, so far, since day 1.)

Thanks for your replies. I know that the bad stories of any product are more well known that the good just because people talk about them more in order to figure out how to fix them. .

BINGO!! Very well said. Forums are for info sharing -- good or bad -- and for seeking of help from experienced fellow members.. If nothing went wrong where would "help seeking" come from?

I just left another forum that I am a member and saw another Kahr report:
Rowdy Biker Bar II

No access?

[jocko]

Jim, ol boy that is not the statement that you said. re read your ranting post and thank you for that last sentence in your last post. Means alot to me!!!!

and may both of your feet point forward when walking so we can see really which way your going with things. This came from Billy's friend. Bob.

[woodman]

No access?

I forgot, can't get access unless you are a member. Anyway one of the members there who is a shooting instructor recently purchased the new Kahr .380 and after 200 rounds the trigger mechanism failed and now won't release the striker. He just recently send it back to Kahr so no word yet on what is wrong.

I hope nobody thinks I came here to bash Kahr, thats not the case. I think they are beautiful guns and the perfect size for what I want. I am just trying to acquire as much information about the good and bad as I can in order to make the right buying decision. I have seen nothing else that looks like it would carry and conceal as well as the Kahrs. I own a Kimber Classic Custom Target which has the 5" barrel and a highly modified Colt Combat Commander but they are both much too large and heavy to conceal under light clothing. The Colt is the lighter of the two and it is 38oz empty, 8 round of 225 gr. hollow points are going to add even more weight.
The taurus 709 slim is about the same size as the CW9 but I have no experience with Taurus and the people I know who own any have the revolvers. If Ruger ever came out with a compact version of the SR9 that may be a good choice. It has the thinnest grip of any double stack that I have ever seen but a single stack will still serve my purpose just fine.
I have owned a glock 17 which was a extremely reliable pistol but I never felt comfortable with the grip angle and of course the thickness of the glock makes them hard to conceal, even the compact glocks are thick.
Right now the CW9 is at the top of the list but I will check out other before making the final decision.

[jocko]

that kahr 380 definitely had a ouot of spec trigger bar. It has happened before.....You wn't go wrong with the cw9, it is just one hell of a great gun, quality made, just doesn't have allthe bells and whistles the PM series does, nor the added dollars either...

[Jim K]

Jim, ol boy that is not the statement that you said. re read your ranting post and thank you for that last sentence in your last post. Means alot to me!!!!

and may both of your feet point forward when walking so we can see really which way your going with things. This came from Billy's friend. Bob.

Jokko,

What's the contradiction? With the lack of Tech data on Kahr products then I advise all to send their Kahrs back at Kahr's expense. If Kahr spends enough money fixing defective product then maybe management will provide QC and fix the problems.

If Kahr provides the Tech data then it is an easy task for most people to inspect and repair their own pistols. This in turn might save Kahr a bunch of money and improve the good image of Kahr Arms. My P9 works great with 32 OZ of extractor tension. It did not work as received with 64 OZ of extractor tension. I still don't know if this conforms to Specs (or even if Specs exist). All I know is my pistol did not work and now it does. I would not ask for Specs or Tech data if my pistol worked in the first place.
I advise all to send their problem pistols back to Kahr and let them sort out the problems. (it's easier)

I maintain that that "break in" line is BS. A machine should not have to be "broken in" before it even functions. I am not writing about the smoothness of the action. I'm writing about functionality. You can say "break it in" or "it needs more rounds down range" loud and often but that dog still won't come out from under the porch. When there is a problem then that deny, deny, deny thing only infuriates the customer. You may provide a consensus of folks who bought that line but that does not make it true.

Verily, Jim K

[Jim K]

Jim, ol boy that is not the statement that you said. re read your ranting post and thank you for that last sentence in your last post. Means alot to me!!!!

and may both of your feet point forward when walking so we can see really which way your going with things. This came from Billy's friend. Bob.

His name was Shakespeare, AKA Billy.

I thought you were smart. My mistake, I should h a v e w r i t t e n s l o w l y.

Regards, Jim K