Kahr response on nose dive / fail to feed issue?

[kahrnut1]

i put the P40 style mag base on my PM40 5 rd & pm9 6 round took some sanding. using dpx ammo i could cause ftf on both guns by increasing little finger pressure. went back to flat base and perfect funtion. maybe kahr knows something after all

[muggsy]

stick with the flush magazines. Mlesa stated what I have been told also. I can't exlain why it does that, my theory and it is just a theory is that the mag well is just to short n most of the kahrs for this to be 100% perfect with the extended magazne for ALL OWNERS Many here have posted before no issues with the extended magazines. If u really think that one extra round is the difference between living or dying then just buy a bigger capaicity gun. My two kahrs when the first round is shot or racked into the barrel the next round is moved forward. I do believe every kahr works that way. I do not believe it is a design fault. It is the way ur kahr works, now if u want to modify, bend, bang or whatever to the magazine to stop it and if it please u, then it is ur gun, DO IT.I personally have no issue with that round looking like that. It works that way.

I would say that 99% of kahr owners don't even look at where that next round lays in the magazine, IF THE GUN GOES BANG EVERYTIME. I in my little mind really feel we are making to much to do out of this. It is an issue if u want to make it an issue but for funtionality, it is not. If ur having issues with ur kahr and blaming what that next round looks like in ur magazine, then I feel u are missing the real issue.

Muggsy ur stating things that u notice, my question is : are those things making ur kahr not working right, will the gun go bang until empty?. If not then something might be wrong with the gun or magazine, but otherwise what something looks like to us to be maybe an issue, really is not.

I don't know if it's causing the problem or not. It was just an observation that I made while attempting to eliminate the problem. For me sanding the follower worked, but for some it didn't. Still, I think that it is a problem that should be addressed by the manufacturer.

[muggsy]

I love my Kahr CW9 and it is my only carry weapon (when I can carry out of state) but let's be honest: there are just too many FTF postings here in kahrtalk to discount that there is some endemic problem here with some (not all) stock Kahrs coming off the line. True - there are a lot of excellent home fixes posted in the forum (polishing the ramp, sanding the follower, etc.) that resolve most of the issues for most of the owners, but the fact that this is a recurring theme (and probably the most common recurring theme) should be troubling to Kahr and cause for a relook on their part.

+1 aray

[JFootin]

I love my Kahr CW9 and it is my only carry weapon (when I can carry out of state) but let's be honest: there are just too many FTF postings here in kahrtalk to discount that there is some endemic problem here with some (not all) stock Kahrs coming off the line. True - there are a lot of excellent home fixes posted in the forum (polishing the ramp, sanding the follower, etc.) that resolve most of the issues for most of the owners, but the fact that this is a recurring theme (and probably the most common recurring theme) should be troubling to Kahr and cause for a relook on their part.

+1 aray

+2 aray.

[aray]

jocko,

I agree with your comments, all manufacturers have some problems, and I love my CW9. Indeed I hope someday to add a CM9 to my collection when I can afford another gun purchase. Kahr is an amazing pioneer in small reliable concealable weapons. Having said all that I think there are enough FTF articles in kahrtalk (where yes of course you'd expect to see them posted) that we can reasonable see a FTF pattern. Not all to be sure, not even most. But consistently some. Which leads me to wonder whether it would be wise for Kahr to take a look at some of the home fixes in this forum, and see if the tweaks owners have posted here would lead to a slightly improved design to make a good series of guns even better.

I don't know what else you can conclude. These postings just keep coming, from experienced gun owners (who know what limp wristing is for example), who buy brand new guns right off the assembly line, who expect to feed standard quality ammunition in the gun, pull the trigger, and have it go bang every time - and it doesn't go bang every time. And, I might add, even after the break-in period and the excellent "proper prep" article.

At some point you just have to wonder who is really at fault here.

[jocko]

tell that to kimber owners. their forum is chucked full of complaints, but it is a kimber forum so one is gonna read there first

Kahrs ain't perfect, not sure there is that perfect gun. it takes some time also to weed issues out from kahrs stand point. We think they should be able to make changes in two weeks, when it can take months to make changes. This ain't no mom and pop store, this is a big gun maker and things just don't go as smooth as they like either, nor as we like either.

I just read and I am trying to find out more that the Indiana state police is AGAIN sending back a bunch of thier G17 due to issues. they replaced their entire purchase of G22 's with the G17 a few years back due to so many issues with the G22, now supposably they are having something with the G17. These are glocks hell they are not supposed to give any issues, just ask any glockster that.

so my point is if you wanna pick on kahrs, that is fine, they ain't perfect but certainly don't put kahr in the category as the only gun maker with gun issues..95% of all kahrs IMO are trouble free, probalby even higher than that. l I hate it when I read of a gun that doesn't work right and I don't care who makes it. I know I sold guns for 40 years and I hated it when I sold a gun and it came back with issues and then I had to take care of it for the cusomter. It was an inconvenieve for me also but it was the way it was back then and it has not changedalot even today. except back 40 years ago we have very few gun makers and certainlyh back then only one glock or two the G17 and G19. One or two 45's makers, so less issues certainly came up. I think also the product quality back then was better,maybe not as the makers back then didn't sell the volume of guns that these makers do today and in volume, we know sh-t happens. Look at the toyota recalls this past two years and prior to that people swore by toyota, today now I think people say , well they are just like the rest of the auto industry.

This forum is never gonna see the perfect posts day in and day out. we are always gonna read about issues here. some are legit issues to, some could be a multitude of things that maybe are not totally gun related. Lets face it, some people should not own guns either, some people should definitley not own small ass guns that require alittle more finesse in usage and handling..

[CalBig]

I spoke to a friendly gentlemen from Kahr and they said that no modifications should be needed to get reliable function, and that if I continue to see issues I should send it in for warranty repair. They've investigated the nose dive issue, but had nothing specific to say about it.

-Adam

Edit: Nobody wants to be that guy.

[Tilos]

Adam:

They all got the talking points e-mail and I don't expect you will get any different answer from anyone at Kahr, so why bother.
And Kahr reads stuff posted here and have been known to respond, so why post every conversation with them.

Do you want to become the phone number on the wall at the take out pizza place?
You know, the guy who never tips the driver and keeps whining about the pizza.

They said they'd fix it...let them.

Tilos

[aray]

jocko,

If I came off as picking on Kahr I’m sorry because I didn’t mean for it to sound that way. I think some manufacturers (whether it is guns, cars, or whatever) are mostly good with a few lemons. Other manufacturers (guns, cars, etc.) have lower quality, worse design, more problems, more returns, etc., and yet can turn out a few really excellent samples that exhibit no problems at all. I think Kahr falls into the former category. Most of us here are obvious Kahr advocates and think the world of the guns. As stated I hope to add to my Kahr collection when I can.

But as you yourself point out Kahr ain’t perfect. No one is. To that end, the number of FTF articles posted in kahrtalk (and other gun forums I follow) indicates to me that this is a recurring problem (indeed THE most common recurring problem) for a certain percentage of factory-line guns. I’m sure it’s small, but I’ve read enough of these postings to also believe that it is very real as well. And if it’s your gun that isn’t going bang reliably, then the 99% of other Kahrs that work well probably doesn’t matter much to you.

And I agree this won’t be solved in days or weeks. But I hope, as alluded to by CalBig, that Kahr is indeed looking at this and hopefully taking this seriously, and hopefully is seeking information from this forum for both ideas on causes as well as possible solutions. It’s in their hands, of course, and they may not choose to tell us about it; I get that. But I think we and they would be better off if this is a serious investigation on their part. And that’s my main point.

[jocko]

no argument from me aray,.

[John222]

Here's a dumb newbie question - Has anyone tried changing the spring. I think everyone agrees the spring force in the mag is excessive causing the follower to rock and result in the top round being positioned incorrectly. The follower sanding fix just helps to alleviate the spring force problem. For instance, take the spring from the 6 rd mag and put it in the 7rd mag and see if the ammo alignment improves. I do not have my 7rd mag yet, so I'm just assuming the 6 rd mag spring is shorter than the 7 rd mag spring.


***** Never mind - I simulated shorter spring and it doesn't improve anything.

[CJB]

..95% of all kahrs IMO are trouble free, probalby even higher than that

Jocko, can't say for sure about Kahr, but if the stuff I sell hits 5% somebody's butt (and possibly head) is on the line to make it right - RIGHT NOW.

In reality the product problems are more like well under 1 percent.

I also suspect that Kahr keeps some sort of running analysis for warranty repair - and if its like our stuff, fully 40 percent of all warranty submissions have no issue, except lack of user knowledge or lack of proper use (including maintenance).