MK9 v. MK40 <> (?)

[Monadnock]

I read through pages, searched for info, surprised that I didn't find much information in a specific post about the differences in shooting between the MK40 and MK9.

Can someone tell me about the recoil, handling, 2nd.. shot comparison, any differences between the two guns??

- The only real downside on the 40 I can think of is round count but I've only shot the K40 so I have little for a direct comparison in regards to recoil differences.

- My only frame of reference in a gun this size is the comparison between my Glock 26, that I recently converted to a 27 40 S&W- which is a approx 2 oz. lighter than an MK.

- I carry Underwood Extreme Defense rounds- there's somewhat significant loss between the calibers in muzzle energy (102 fp) see below.

- The recoil of this Underwood round is noticeably lighter because it's a smaller projectile, so the difference between shooting a standard HST 9mm and an Underwood .40 are less dramatic than a typical .40 S&W round.

Info from webs:
Underwood Extreme Defender- Technical Information:

• Caliber: 40 S&W
• Bullet Weight: 115 Grains
• Bullet Style: Lehigh Defense Xtreme Defense
• Case Type: Ducta-Bright 7a Nickel Brass

Ballistics Information:

• Muzzle Velocity:1400 fps
• Muzzle Energy: 500 ft. lbs.
• Penetration:17 3/4 inches

Underwood Extreme Defender- Technical Information:

• Caliber: 9mm Luger
• Bullet Weight: 90 Grains
• Bullet Style: Lehigh Defense Xtreme Defense
• Case Type: Ducta-Bright 7a Nickel Plated Brass

Ballistics Information:

• Muzzle Velocity:1400 fps
• Muzzle Energy: 392 ft. lbs.
• Penetration: 15 in.

[O'Dell]

I've never shot an MK9 but my MK40 is no problem at all. In fact, short barrel or no, it's one of my most accurate pistols, and that includes SIG's, HK's, 1911's, and of course, three other Kahrs.

[Barth]

I've never shot an MK9 but my MK40 is no problem at all. In fact, short barrel or no, it's one of my most accurate pistols, and that includes SIG's, HK's, 1911's, and of course, three other Kahrs.

+1
My only Kahr is a MK40 Elite.
It's very accurate and soft shooting.

[CPTKILLER]

I'm good with my MK9.

[Bawanna]

I have a K40, if I was able to get an MK I'd go 9. I'm not a 9 guy either. I would like to find an old MK one of these days. I borrow another fella's when I need to make a grip and seems I have it more than he does.

I'm surprised at the soft / easy shooting comments myself.

I had my K40 magnaported and it's still a fire breathing dragon. I'm good with 40's in full size guns but compacts not so much.
I'm not sure its so much recoil as just muzzle flip, requiring too long to get back on target for a second round.

[finpro]

I owned both an MK40, my first Kahr, and an MK9 and now own neither. I found it impossible to fire the MK40 both fast and accurately, due to its snappy muzzle rise, especially with the shorter magazine. While accurate in slow fire, it did not exactly encourage much practice. My MK9 allowed faster shooting and I recommend it over the MK40. In defensive pistols of that size, for fast shooting, I do not see a benefit of anything snappier than modern standard velocity 9mm defensive ammo. FWIW, my MK9 was somewhat smaller and lighter than my MK40 and felt better in my hand. Still, the MK9 was too heavy and awkward to pocket carry and, so, required a belt holster. I replaced it with a K9 Elite which shoots more accurately and faster, has better balance and carries better in a belt holster. If you can, try both a K9 and an MK9. For pocket carry, I recommend a lighter and narrower pistol like a PM9 or CM9.

[Bawanna]

That's strange I thought the grip on the MK9 and MK40 were interchangeable. Seems like I made some on my borrowed MK9 and sent them to a guy with a MK40. Maybe my cheese slipped off it's ******* and I'm not remembering right. Ain't that strange we can't say Ritz _______ . PC police enroute.

I'd like to shoot a PM40 once or maybe twice. So much lighter than an MK or a K. Unless the Tupperware soaks up some of the flip it must be a real cannon.

It also could be that I'm getting high mileage and not as immune to recoil as I was in my youth. I used to dig building hot loads for my Ruger Super Blackhawk, have a 30-30 Contender I still enjoy immensely. The 44 hasn't been out for a very long time.
I guess in my youth recoil was Manly! Hunted deer sometimes with a 375 H&H. Course there was bears around but that was little excuse for such a big rifle.

[finpro]

We are both right, I think. My MKs were early 2000s "old" versions, but the Kahr website currently shows .40s weighing 1 ounce more than the 9mm versions in the MKs and Ks. Old Kahr product info said the .40 slides had to be more robust and heavier to accommodate the extra power of that round. (The .40 S&Ws were routinely loaded to what would normally be considered +P pressures, which is why they were not marketed as "+P". They are considerably more snappy than standard pressure 9mms and much more comparable to +P 9mms.) Most of the weight difference was in the slides, so the frames would likely be be almost identical, especially in the grip area, by design. This is why you can use the same grips on both .40s and 9mms. Extra .40 slide weight is also found in the polymer pistols as well, with P and PM pistols weighing about 1.9 ounces more in .40 than 9mm. This about double the weight differences of the steel Kahrs.

Years ago, when I was researching SIG P239s, their .40 and 357 SIG versions were an ounce or two heavier than the 9mm versions. Unfortunately, I bought a .40 version and regretted it until I replaced the barrel with a Bar-Sto 9mm conversion unit, but it is still heavier than a P239 born as a 9mm.

[O'Dell]

I have a K40, if I was able to get an MK I'd go 9. I'm not a 9 guy either. I would like to find an old MK one of these days. I borrow another fella's when I need to make a grip and seems I have it more than he does.

I'm surprised at the soft / easy shooting comments myself.

I had my K40 magnaported and it's still a fire breathing dragon. I'm good with 40's in full size guns but compacts not so much.
I'm not sure its so much recoil as just muzzle flip, requiring too long to get back on target for a second round.

I appreciate your concern, Bawanna. My MK40 is a very small pistol, indeed only my LCP is smaller among my hand guns. However, we know that recoil is more related to weight than size, and for its size, the all steel MK40 is quite heavy. It weighs 6 ozs more than my CW45 or CM45, and about the same as my full size SIG P220 and Kimber Ultra Carry 1911, and those are both 45's. I think the extra weight damps a great deal of the recoil and makes the pistol easier to shoot.

[berettabone]

In a defensive situation, you'll probably have to shoot just once with a .40. I don't find the recoil much different than 9mm. With the Kahr triggers, you're not going to be doing double taps any time soon. This crud about not being able to get back on target fast enough is a wheel barrel full of baloney. You'll have plenty of time to get back on target, especially with that trigger.

[Monadnock]

Good info guys but it seems I'm still on the fence.. I shot some Underwood .40 the other day with HST in the same mag. It was day and night, the difference between them but still I think it might even be more dramatic with the 9mm and even more worthwhile with the extra bu-lets capacity..

I agree about just getting the K9 but I'm really looking for a swap out for a Baby Glock.. With the right stiff leather pocket carry holster, I think an MK can be carried easily.. I pocket my G27 and it's just a little lighter, both are perfect for waist.

[finpro]

In a defensive situation, you'll probably have to shoot just once with a .40. I don't find the recoil much different than 9mm. With the Kahr triggers, you're not going to be doing double taps any time soon. This crud about not being able to get back on target fast enough is a wheel barrel full of baloney. You'll have plenty of time to get back on target, especially with that trigger.

Re: "In a defensive situation, you'll probably have to shoot just once with a .40." That is true, unless you miss or have a poor hit or unless the hit is insufficient for any reason or unless there are more than a single attacker or whatever... Increasingly the modern belief is that a modern defensive 9mm is essentially as effective as a .40. Even in larger, heavier service pistols, police departments find better marksmanship scores with 9mms. You are right that Kahrs are, by design, not super fast shooters, but 9mms can be shot faster than comparable .40s, especially in Kahr-sized pistols. With practice, Kahrs can be shot with reasonably speed, certainly as fast as a revolver. I think for any defensive application, there it an optimal setup for each individual. Regarding the 9mm vs. .40, in smaller, lighter pistols, especially those too small to accommodate a four finger grip, I think this mostly favors a 9mm, as long as quality defensive ammunition is used.

[Bawanna]

About 80% of the conversation lately is about 380's. Give me the 9 over the 40 in a compact Kahr any day.

That is if I ever decide to give up my 45 which I don't anticipate any time in the remainder of my life time or the next 2 or 3 lifetimes.

It's a vicious circle these caliber wars. I spent years getting the department issued 45's. Now the talk is this better accuracy and more capacity with a 9. Now the optical sights and MOS Glocks are quite the topic.
Of course in usual fashion, none of the new toys are available for anything but 9's. I sense completing the circle and having a bunch of mouse guns back in officer holsters. No matter really, they frown on them shooting folks and never shot anybody anyhow so maybe they are onto something.

I also see 9mm sub guns (MP5's) are back in vogue. Glad they didn't trade off the two we got, when it's popular again they'll want to have them on hand.

I think I'm allergic to meaningless trends. Do you think I need an evaluation?

[yqtszhj]

I think I'm allergic to meaningless trends. Do you think I need an evaluation?

I can totally relate to that. Popular opinion sends me running the oposite direction because it changes like the wind.

I figure carry what I shoot good and shoot good what I carry. Everything else is for range fun or backup.

That being said I want a CZ Scorpion with a stock (think SBR) but don't want to deal with the form 1 and everything that goes with it. When are they going to repeal the NFA??? Not holding my breath.

[berettabone]

Call me crazy, but I'll take .40 or .45 over any other caliber, as a first choice. I don't shoot .40 out of my Kahr. I shoot .40 out of firearms that I believe handle the caliber much more fluidly. But I would never dissuade anyone from shooting .40 out of a Kahr, it's not anything that's not handle able. Crazier things have happened.