First Kahr, MK9 with FTE troubles, advice?

[xaman]

Hello,

I'm brand new to the world of Kahr -- just picked up my first, a second hand MK9, hoping to replace my Glock 26 with something a little easier to conceal in summer wear but still decent to take to the range. It feels great in hand, shoots well (even though the long smooth trigger is going to take a little getting used to) and carries like a dream. I really want to carry this gun.

Reliability is a problem. The previous owner said it was perfect after break-in. I cleaned it before the first range trip, where I put 120 rounds through with 3 FTEs and one slide lock back with rounds still in the mag.

Second range trip was yesterday, with some different ammo. 130 rounds, 3 more FTE and one more premature slide lock back.

Ammo so far was:
50 rounds Wolf steel cased (I've since realized Kahr says avoid steel cased)
150 rounds.Dynamic Nobel (GECO) 124 gr.
50 rounds Federal FMJ
(I also ran just 2 clips of some Winchester +p hollow points, no problems)


The malfunctions are stovepipes, every time (except the slide locking back prematurely, which I'm willing to accept as user error for now). I don't believe I could be limpwristing though, there's something else wrong. They all were the same, I should have taken a picture, the spent case got pinched between the slide and barrel. This is a bit disheartening.

Also, it came with two mags, the 6 and the 7 rounder, the stovepipes happen with both.


This morning I did a detailed slide strip and clean, looking for anything out of the ordinary and snapped a few bad pics. I'm not sure you can see anything, as I'm a terrible photographer, but here goes:

The extractor -- One end is rounded, but it looks to me like it was purposeful. I searched online but couldn't find any close-up pics of a new extractor to compare this with. There is a small dent visible, even if the rounding is from the factory. I'm guessing I ought to replace the extractor just in case?







I also snapped a pic of the barrel. There's a few hickies on the top right of the barrel (lower left in the pic). I'm not sure if that's worth noting, I was just trying to find anything that didn't look right...






I REALLY like this little gun and want to make it work. Any thoughts from those of you with more experience?

[jlottmc]

The first place I would look is at the recoil springs. You have no idea how many rounds have been down that tube. The extractor would be causing a more consistent problem. Before all of that though make foe sure it's not shooter error, try letting another good shooter have a go, or try shooting left handed for a spell. The steel cased ammo takes a lot of heat, but it is still SAAMI spec. If you can rule out shooter error, then go to the recoil springs. Let us know how that goes.

[jocko]

the nits/burrs on the end of the barr hood is where the casing are hitting upon ejectiion. take a fine file and remove the burr, and then smooth with some 600+ grip paper and it will never come back. That pointed end takes a beating more than some. My PM9 did that.

what you might wantt o do is also go to the kahr tech section and hit on two good sticky's that will help you alot.

#1 Kahr lube chart

#2 propper prepping of ur new kahr.

3 fte's in 120 rounds (now don't get pissed) could be shooter error. If there was a part failure, it should produce it time and time again. The premature slide lock could be two things, easily checked out.

see the propper p[repping for that to. Try to shoot it left hand if that premature slide lock goes away, it could be your thumb engaging the slide lock lever and u not knowing it.

The gun is small and when the boom thing happens the gun naturaly recoils upward and that is where that nasty thumb can come into play by hitting that slide stop and u not knowing it.

Another good test is to let anothger good shooter shoot the gun. If he can produce the same things u are having we can assume it is gun related. If he has no issues, then u have to assume shooter error. Grip is very important, more so in some guns than others.

Maybe a good polishing of the feed ramp and inside the camber can't hurt anything.

IMO your extractor looks fine, but getting a new one will cure your aprehension. Also if you order that extractor get a new extractor spring also.If ur gonna order, get a new recoil spring for the gun, and start out right. Remember the open end goes towards the front of the slide..

Might just be also that the gun and shooter need to have more time together.

[Bawanna]

How many issues did you have specifically with the Federal ammo alone.

The other two you mention would be no other ammo on the face of the earth available and it's all there is to shoot before I'd use it.
Many like and get along fine with the Wolf, it gets a solid 1 on a 1-10 scale in my book. Never heard of Dynamic Noble which means little but I suspect it's on the low end of the power scale too.
Get some WWB or more federal. Usually these things run with carry ammo with the full power to make things happen. I suspect some slightly under power loads and perhaps a thumb hitting the slide stop on occasion, it happens, I've done it myself and you don't even know it.

[jocko]

listen to the the "ol wise one"

[xaman]

Thanks for the responses guys. Jocko, I'm not above ruling out bumping the slide stop as I was gripping with thumbs up high and forward, so I will try another round with a modified grip and another shooter as well. Good advice.

Bawanna, the DN rounds are good ammo, and full power, if what I've been told is correct. I agree on the wolf stuff . Honestly I cannot remember how many on the federal, but I know it was not immune. The +p stuff was immune, but I only fired 13 rounds of it...

I'll try to clean up the barrel as per jocko's suggestions too.

I'll keep this thread updated for future reference. Again, thanks for the feedback. I'm glad to have found a great forum (I've been reading through the MK section and getting tons of great info).

[jocko]

xaman; Trutst us we are not trying to tell u that it is shooter error. But when one has issues, he should try his best to eliminate all the possables, s that if indeed the gun has to go back you can state everything you have done to correct the issue.

ur new here so u have missed some threads where a shooter definitely felt it was a gun related thing ad then upon letting qualified jpeople (in his case 3 of them) They all shot his gun with not one issue, He was convinced after that and then himself dug into the gun more with a through striker channel cleaning and proper lubing and then he shot it with no issues either. The reason I say this and use this fella as an example is that he would have been sending back a perfectly good gun and kahr can't fix a good gun.

I myself am found of Amercian grade ammo but most all ammo will work in a kahr. What I think I would do is get some WWb at Walmart 115 grain fmj and do ur testing. If it then works perfect, then go back to your other brands and retest and if they act up u now know it is ammo related and not gun or shooter.

I have no problems with a person buying the cheapest ammo he can find for his gun, as long as he realizes that a malfunction can happen and it could be the ammo for range use, that is OK also..

[xaman]

Hey guys,

Quick partial update.

I did a full slide assembly detail clean job and ordered some new parts (magazine, recoil assembly, ejector/extractor parts. They aren't here yet, but I wanted to shoot it again before the parts arrived just to negate limp wresting or ammo or dirty internals.

I had zero premature lockbacks, so I'm attributing that to thumb bumbs. I took jocko's advice and rounded the slide stop a bit, so that was an easy fix.

However, I did have stovepipes again, with both the Gecko and Federal ammo. I really don't think I'm limp wristing. Here's what they look like:





This is what's happening on average 5 out of 100 rounds. Unfortunately I didn't have another experienced shooter to fire the weapon yet...


Soooo... When the new parts arrive, should I try to add them one by one, or just go for everything at once and never know what exactly caused the fix (fingers crossed that something will fix it...). Any further thoughts?

[jocko]

replce the recoil assemblyh first, leave the rest off. Hoefully u provided kahr with the right information as to what set of recoil srings to send you. make sure the outter cols are exactly the same count. sure would be nice if another good shooter could try it with you there, any smitty's around ur area?? Iwouldthink if it was a defective part, it would reproduce itself more than once every 20 rounds. A bad extractor is bad and the not good and then not bad etc.

[xaman]

UH oh, I just ordered the recoil assembly off the Kahr MK page, is there more to it than that?

[jocko]

No, I was thinking of the PM series, ur OK, sorry about that...

[ripley16]

I'd guess you have a tired recoil spring. They need to be changed every 1000-1200 rounds or so.

The Dynamit Nobel ammo should have some punch to it, more so than the Federal.

I would suggest a change of spring and if you're able, a change of range ammo... say some WWB from Walmart, just to eliminate the ammo question.

[xaman]

Well, bad news...

My parts came in the mail so I put them in (recoil assembly / extractor / extractor spring / and a new magazine = $100 from Kahr.) and headed out to the range again.

120 rounds Dynamit Nobel, 2 stovepipes
50 rounds Winchester white box, 1 stovepipe

So, it's happened with now with 4 types of ammo, 3 different magazines, and old and new parts. I also shot with multiple grips --- normal grip, death grip with locked wrists and elbo on strong hand, and for grins I even tried to limpwrist with a VERY loose grip and loose arms for about 35 rounds. Oddly enough I could not recreate the stovepipe by limpwristing. I really don't think that's what is happening.

So now I'm at a loss. I'll be trying to contact Kahr first thing monday am. I hope theyll look it over even though I bought it secondhand.

Man, I'm really sad about this, especially after improving my accuracy with so much trigger time. The long smooth trigger was finally starting to feel good to me. I would have replaced my Glock 26 in a heartbeat if I could trust this firearm. And it carries SO NICE IWB. Now I've got $550 in the gun, plus 100 for parts, plus another 100 in ammo, so $750 for a gun I don't trust. I'm sad...

And the thing is, I'd like to buy another, perhaps a brand new one, since they carry so nice, but I'm afraid to take another beating only to find out it's "almost" reliable... I guess I just need to wait and see what Kahr has to say. I'll keep this thread updated for posterity.

[jocko]

can u let another shooter give the gun a try out. 170 rounds and 3 stove pipes is very hard to troble shoot, going to be hard for kahr to duplicate. It would be nice if another good shotrer can duplicate what issues ur having. I am not saying it is shooter error, so take no offense but IMO u also need to eliminate that possability to, as 3 in 170 is to me is not indicative of a failing part..

Just a suggestion:

[xaman]

Yeah, I recognize that is a possibility (albeit a slim one in my mind). I really don't know a proficient shooter, so I'd have to search for one. My wife and I have both had the stovepipes, but she's more a novice than me. And honestly, even if it's shooter error, I'm not sure it's easily correctible, given that I've tried to duplicate it with different grips to no avail. In other words, if I don't know what I'm doing wrong, I wouldn't feel comfortable carrying it anyway.

I've never had a stovepipe with another firearm... So that makes me scared of this gun, or scared of this gun in my hands, whichever it turns out to be. I'll see if I can find another seasoned shooter in my general area. In the meantime, do you have any thoughts about what "limpwristing" really looks like, or how to overcome it? Or a link that would be worth reading?