Some thoughts on bullets touching the rifling

[rkammer]

Just want to comment on this "bullets touching the rifling" thing I read about from time to time. I have a fairly new CW45 (about 300 rounds thru it) and my FMJ reloads barely touch the rifling when they chamber. I load my rounds to an OAL of 1.260. It also does this with factory FMJ ammo. In other words, if I drop a round into the barrel when out of the gun, most will stick and can be pulled out by hand.

I mention this because my CW45 has not had any failures to feed or fire and it is very accurate even to the point of being as accurate (and maybe more so) than my P45 with the match barrel. So, my CW45 flunks the so called "plunk test". But, I'm of the opinion that maybe the bullet touching the rifling isn't such a bad thing as long at the slide goes fully into battery.

I'd be interested in some other thoughts on this.

[U.S. Patriot]

What grain bullets are you using? From the data I have found for a 230 grain bullet, they suggest an OAL of 1.200".

[rkammer]

What grain bullets are you using? From the data I have found for a 230 grain bullet, they suggest an OAL of 1.200".

I'm using Precision Delta 230 gr FMJ bullets. Most data I use call for OAL of from 1.250 to 1.260 with a SAAMI max of 1.275 for FMJ. Where are you seeing 1.200 OAL for 230 FMJ? That sounds OK for bullets with flat points but not round points.

[Bawanna]

I load my Precision Delta 230's at 1.230. As long as they chamber and don't pull out it might be ok. Any longer and my PM45 don't like it.

[rkammer]

I load my Precision Delta 230's at 1.230. As long as they chamber and don't pull out it might be ok. Any longer and my PM45 don't like it.

I think I'll test some factory FMJs like Winchester WB and some SD loads to see how they fit my chamber. Then, if they don't pose any problems, I might just seat my reloads a little deeper like you do yours. Maybe around 1.250 or so until they plunk in my barrel. I'll also look for any change in accuracy as mine is bloody accurate now the way it is.

[jocko]

and probably

Just want to comment on this "bullets touching the rifling" thing I read about from time to time. I have a fairly new CW45 (about 300 rounds thru it) and my FMJ reloads barely touch the rifling when they chamber. I load my rounds to an OAL of 1.260. It also does this with factory FMJ ammo. In other words, if I drop a round into the barrel when out of the gun, most will stick and can be pulled out by hand.

I mention this because my CW45 has not had any failures to feed or fire and it is very accurate even to the point of being as accurate (and maybe more so) than my P45 with the match barrel. So, my CW45 flunks the so called "plunk test". But, I'm of the opinion that maybe the bullet touching the rifling isn't such a bad thing as long at the slide goes fully into battery.

I'd be interested in some other thoughts on this.

it won't hurt a thing either, that space is called "free bore". In defense gun, I would think one would ALWAYS want to error on the side of caution and not take any chance of a OAL being a tad to long, (no matte rhow long u think u can get away with it) for one FTRB is enough to screw up a good defense scenario. Probably it is far more critical for long guns than semi's concerning this possable accuracy different that one might notice. Just saying. A tight chamber might cause what one might thiink isfailing the plunk test It is pretty easy to see if the rifling is getting into the roundss.. BUT if it goes into full battery, then again ur OK to go. That is the key thing, FULL BATTERY. If one wants to run his rounds into the rifling and stillget full battery that is his choice to to. I think u don't gain near what u might possably loose if that one round fils to allow full battery. Just saying.

[MW surveyor]

+1 with jocko.

Since you are a reloader you know that some bullets have different designs and that the 45 head spaces on the case mouth. Case in point. I shoot lead exclusively and the bullets that I use have to be loaded at 1.245" (230 g RNL and 200 g LSWC) or they will not let the rim of the case sit flush with the barrel hood. Using 1.250" really sticks the bullet in the rifling and is a bugger to get the case out.

[U.S. Patriot]

I'm using Precision Delta 230 gr FMJ bullets. Most data I use call for OAL of from 1.250 to 1.260 with a SAAMI max of 1.275 for FMJ. Where are you seeing 1.200 OAL for 230 FMJ? That sounds OK for bullets with flat points but not round points.

Straight from Hodgdons load data. I do know that what powder you use does play a factor.
Hodgdon Titegroup 1.200" 4.4 744 15,000 CUP 4.8 818 16,700 CUP

That's for a 230 grain FMJ RN.

[Bawanna]

Actually that's what I'm loading. My book, Hornady I think calls for 1.230 and they sometimes stuck really bad. So I'm setting them at 1.200.
I guess this is why we should never trust reload recipes over the internet where somebody like me goes off memory instead of looking at his records.

The bullet shape is everything, I never had any round nose FMJ get stuck but the reloads I'd been running in my other 45's locked it up really bad.

[BEARDOG]

+2 for Jocko is right on.

I am not surprised you are getting good accuracy by having the bullet touch the rifling. When loading for precision bolt action rifles I make my ammo just lightly touch the rifling. FYI- A way to determine the bullet setting depth is to "smoke" the bullet, by holding a match under the bullet and getting a nice black covering on it, then chamber it and if you see clean spots it is touching. It is well known to improve accuracy.

For magazine feed guns I don't worry about trying to touch the rifling and instead focus on 100% proper functioning through the magazine and gun.

Just as a side note, I just watched a gun show on TV the other night and they were talking to Jim Clark about accurizing a 10/22, He showed how a stock rifle was grouping @ 1"-1.5". Then he did a barrel re-crown and a shorting of the chamber (to get rid of the free bore) that was all he did... Shot it again and a dime size group was the result. Shows what it can do for accuracy nicely IMO.

[OldLincoln]

I load 1.262 for Dad's Colt and they don't touch rifling. Why don't one of you send me your PM45 so I can test it in that?! PS: I'll return it when I'm through with it.

[jocko]

mY pm9 IS crowned. Unless one has a shi-t barrel on a handgun I think it is unncecessary. I did it becuase when it was in for some cusotm work Ijust paid 50 bucks to have it done, probalbypissed away 50 bucks but it was a one time thing. No doubt rifles an d how to get to greatr accuracy is now getting into the thousands of inches of anything different. Again just like BEARDOG state on the Jim Clark 10/22. HOW MUCH TO DO U REALLY WANTTO SPEND TO GET THIS ADDIONAL 1/2" MORE ACCURACY??? There is always smittyps out their that will take ur hard earned dollars to enhance you gun for what will be damn little or nothing gain eve.. Then if ever, try tosee if u can get 10 cents on the dollar back for the cost involved in getting this additional accuracy.

Most of these rifel barrels today are damn accurate, some are ceertainly far better as the price tags will tell u also. In a semi auto and expeciall small ass semi9's like kahrs and others, give me some "free bore" over touching the rifling any day. Some of these custom gun sitty will lengthen ur throart for you (at a cost). I had this done when I sentmy PM9 into Cylinder and slide, for again no reason than I thought it was the thing todo at that time. I NVER HAD A ROUND THAT WOULD NOT FEED IN THE CHAMBER prior to that, so did I gain anything. I sure did. about 100 bucks less in my pocket..

Now if I tried to sell this PM9, trust me, none of the abouve sh-t \I had done to it would bring me even 10 cents on the dollar. My PM9 never was a target gun and what I did IMO ddn't make it one iotta better in that department either..

Customize target guns be they rifle or handgun, but IMO leave defense gun alittle looseey goosey with tolerance that maybe a custom gun could not allow. Just sayin....

[Ikeo74]

My opinion, don't load any bullet longer than necessary. It can not only cause problems of cycling into the gun but it can also cause bullets to hang up in the magazine. Kahr mags are very tight for OAL of the bullets, believe it or not. A lot of nose dives, failure to load and mag follower hang ups are caused by the bullet OAL (and bullet shape) to get caught at the front rounded part of the inside of your mag. When that happens you can get all kinds of failures. I tried some Barnes all copper 115 gr 9mm and loaded to the max OAL. What happened, they stuck in my mag and caused the bullets to come out of the mag tipped. Lots of loading problems. So I went back to the MIN OAL for that same bullet and all the failures went away and they shot perfectly from my CM9. So when you try for max OAL on your bullets, check how easily they fit in the magazine too. You can't shoot a bad guy if the bullets are still stuck in your magazine!

[jocko]

good point there Ikeo74. never thought about that either. doesn't really matterhow open the throat area is ,,,,if it won't feed out of the magazine correctly than all is void..:7:

[DKD]

I agree with the reloaders last several posts. Go with what realiably functions in both magazine & pistol. Come on guys...really? extra .25" groups....I think not, 95% of us out here, accuracy varies an inch at least day to day and thats on a good day. Hell most of us here on this forum would have a tough time shooting our scope sighted rifles that well to affect a 1/4" tighter group from a bench rest and be able to notice that small a gain in accuracy.
The guns will out shoot probably all of us because we just can't hold and shoot that consistantly....who are we kidding, we aren't Bob Munden or Jerry Micklick.