QC issues at Kahr

[tilefish]

I just recently purchased my first Kahr, a K9 elite, and I love it. Feels great, shoots great and its well made. BUT, based on my experience, I can see where the "problem" reputation could come from. My K9 was so caked full of crap, machining debris and congealed oil/grease that it most certainly would have had some sort of failure had I not detail stripped it prior to shooting. I was shocked at how much crap was in it (yes, it was brand new) and it felt like it had sand in the trigger. Gritty, crunchy and sticky. Also, the striker block would stick in the down position, the little spring was too goobered up.
No amount of cleaner/compressed air/scrubbing was going to cut it, it needed to be completely stripped, period. And yes,I referred to the proper prep and lube sections. Additionally, I am fairly experienced with pistols. This thing was a failure waiting to happen.
Me personally, I have no problem with detail stripping. I usually do it just for the heck of it anyway. However a lot of people can't/won't/ don't want to/don't know how etc... This would have been a terrible gun for that type of person. Furthermore, with the steady increase in gun sales, more and more casual shooters/non-gun people are purchasing firearms. This may not be a hobby to those people, it might be a necessity or something of a casual interest. The general public in general simply expects something to work and they do not want to deal with anything other than "plug and play".
I would absolutely buy another Kahr because I think they are excellent guns (except for the mag base plates lol) but I could definitely see people being leery of Kahr. They might want to step up QC a bit in terms of ready to use firearms leaving their factory.

[jocko]

and I have been told that after test firing all kahrs are cleaned, gues sthey forgot to clean the striker channel. U did it right by detailihg it completely. The gun itself is flawless, just the cleaning of it sucked...

[tilefish]

and I have been told that after test firing all kahrs are cleaned, gues sthey forgot to clean the striker channel. U did it right by detailihg it completely. The gun itself is flawless, just the cleaning of it sucked...

No argument here, its a great gun.

[kerby9mm]

if they also don't carry any kel tecks then either.. Personally I ainpt buying that story of there but what the hell it is the internet and we can post anything we want or hear..

I should have recorded the conversation with the salesperson if you don't believe what I posted that is your choice. Its good to be a DIE HARD backer of a product you believe in but what is left after the HARD facts (problems) come out about that product. You can choose to not buy these problems people post or not. Everybody could be lying about slides sticking,bad polymer,misfires etc. It is the internet after all.

[Disapointed]

Don't shoot the messenger; Please.

I am not a confirmed Kahr basher, or I would leave this forum for good. Our first Kahr purchase is a lemmon pure and simple, and we are still trying to patiently and painfully ($$$ in ammo) work it out. New out of box it was filthy. We got it back a week and a half ago from kahr for its 1st trip back, and it was SUPER filthy, no exaggeration here. Have not given up on this gun yet ----- fast forward to this post.
True story as of Sunday March 4th. Still trying to force myself to believe in kahr and cash in on the big Kahr sale, went to local box store. CW9 for $349.00, CM9 for $400.00. Asked to see the two side by side and was going to purchase one, done deal. Salesman said, i'd be a fool to buy one these over anything. He showed me 4 other 9mm and said pick one or better yet get the LC9. I said sorry, not a huge ruger fan and would be buying one of these. He adamantly said DO NOT BUY one of these!!! He said these keep coming back and that I would regret it. No Bull. I walked out buying nothing, still ready to go back tomorrow and cash in that huge sale.

[Krusty]

Called Kahr yesterday about my PM45, I'ts been 2wks yesterday.They told me that my gun will be ready by this week. Their current turnaround is 2-3wks,I guess that they are busy with repairs. I'll update after she's back and tested by me.

[Tinman507]

With the deluge of new gun sales, is Kahr becoming a victim of it's own success?

Are they cranking them out faster than they can adequately check them?
I've seen this happen in other industries.

Sometimes it's good just to take a day or two and do a QC stand-down and make sure everyone is on the same page.

[linksrds]

A little follow up

"No need to be alarmed and rest your weary mind, what you have just noticed is typical quality standard in Kahr's polymer guns. I have them in my PM, and have them in my CM." by Wagon

Wagon, first off, I do not have a weary mind...if I did I guess I would be o.k. with "typical quality standard in Kahrs polymer guns ." your quote.

If you read the first post, mine actually, you will see that I have two Kahr pistols. I have all the confidence in the world in both of them ( one is my EDC)...Actually I was going to LGS to buy a CM9 or a PM9...but declined because of the "typical quality standard" again your quote.

If that much junk is visible on the outside, what is it like on the inside?

so I will just decline purchasing a Kahr for now until they work on their QC problems.

If they turn out these pistols now with this "typical quality standard" agai n your quote, they will have a lot of time in the future to work on their Q.C. because no one will be buying their firearms.

[wagon]

Linksrds: you have missed my sarcasm on Kahr's "quality".

In the end, sub $400 is in line with the quality of their polymer guns, anything more than that, IMO, is over-priced. But we all set our very own "standard"...

Still, I was glad that I sold my PM9 2 years ago @ a very reasonable price, and I am equally pleased with the CM9 purchase last week, both function flawlessly.

[DKD]

I went to a LGs in the town were I work last Thursday, and got to speak with the owner who also shoots many of the guns that come in on trade or just new arrivals. Her was a new Kahr dealer. before he commented on his findings he inquired as to my experience with the brand to which I had no problems offering my experience. Both of us had nothing negative to report period. We both were fond of the design & function of several in the line.
He had a used PM9 for sale at a very competative price of $450 and she was mint. He also had new CM9's avaialble at a great price of $350. When I told him that was a very good price for such a pistol he just said he wanted to sell the guns as thats what he is in business to do and that it supports his indoor airconditioned range. He also sell range ammo at a very good price. 380 acp for $15.00 a box when others around here want $20.00-$ 22.00 a box. Yea I will be supporting this gun shop with my business...easy to talk to also...I wll also be recommending him to my friends as well.
My opinion and his as well was that many of the complaints alot of folks have can be attributed to lack of expierience, poor technique, and shoddy maintenance. Notice I didn't say all problems. Many folks just seam to have a problem with many manufactures micro compacts these days, and I feel this is primarily due to fact that these guns are pushing the envelope on size which brings on many of the problems they tend to experience. Manufactures are experiencing large orders as of late and they are human and some pistols do leave the factory, unfortunatley many of the so called dealers have alot of young pups out there whom have little exerience and will push what ever flavor of the day that their employer id pushing. This is just business as usual.....do your research, examine the piece, and trust your gut based upon what you see and not much on what you hear and you more than likely be correct in your decision. This is just my two cents worth based upon fifty -nine years worth of lifes lessons.

[DKD]

I must post a correction to my last post. The CM9 was listed for $370 still a very good price.

[linksrds]

reply

Wagon,No offense taken...

I have fired numerous rounds through my CW9 and my P380. I EDC the 380 and have complete confidence in it.

Truthfully, I was angry when I looked at the CM9 and then at a PM9 and saw all the garbage at the end of the frame and slide. I wanted to purchase one of the two because it is slightly more compact ( length and height) then my CW9.

I did go to THREE LGS and they all carried Kahr's and all the pistols at each of the different location were the same. So you could not say, one just "squeaked" by the final inspection.

I just could not buy one with the obvious (IMHO) lack of attention to the finished product.

[zebraD]

I went to a LGs in the town were I work last Thursday, and got to speak with the owner who also shoots many of the guns that come in on trade or just new arrivals. Her was a new Kahr dealer. before he commented on his findings he inquired as to my experience with the brand to which I had no problems offering my experience. Both of us had nothing negative to report period. We both were fond of the design & function of several in the line.
He had a used PM9 for sale at a very competative price of $450 and she was mint. He also had new CM9's avaialble at a great price of $350. When I told him that was a very good price for such a pistol he just said he wanted to sell the guns as thats what he is in business to do and that it supports his indoor airconditioned range. He also sell range ammo at a very good price. 380 acp for $15.00 a box when others around here want $20.00-$ 22.00 a box. Yea I will be supporting this gun shop with my business...easy to talk to also...I wll also be recommending him to my friends as well.
My opinion and his as well was that many of the complaints alot of folks have can be attributed to lack of expierience, poor technique, and shoddy maintenance. Notice I didn't say all problems. Many folks just seam to have a problem with many manufactures micro compacts these days, and I feel this is primarily due to fact that these guns are pushing the envelope on size which brings on many of the problems they tend to experience. Manufactures are experiencing large orders as of late and they are human and some pistols do leave the factory, unfortunatley many of the so called dealers have alot of young pups out there whom have little exerience and will push what ever flavor of the day that their employer id pushing. This is just business as usual.....do your research, examine the piece, and trust your gut based upon what you see and not much on what you hear and you more than likely be correct in your decision. This is just my two cents worth based upon fifty -nine years worth of lifes lessons.

+1 on that. If I believed everything I was told, than I would probably would be the most paranoid person in America

Mom taught me that I won't know if I like something or not unless I try it out for myself.

[Orphanedcowboy]

I remember when Llama had a bad reputation and look at them today........ well maybe that ain't a good example.

I have 3 Kahr's now, 2 P40's and a P380 and other than a few hiccups on the 380 during break in, they have been flawless when firing. I did have a P40 magazine crack on the rear upper corners but other than that no issues otherwise.

I have had 2 Kimbers(both with failure to feed or extract issues) that had to go back before the first box of ammo was burnt up and I have got a Sig MK-25 out for repair now(broken extractor). These things happen and I have plenty of toys to tide me over until they come back. It would be different it this was a pacemaker or airplane, but it is just a pistol and I know I can't build one anywhere near the quality I am buying, so I accept a few burps along the way. It's when they come back that they really get hammered and abused, and guess what, I generally have no issues and if there are, they settle down or disappear within a few magazines.

Most local mall ninjas only like to sell the cool guns, I refuse to darken most places locally because they haven't got a clue of what makes a good handgun other than it holds a lot and looks good in the case. Besides who wants to buy a handgun that has had the slide racked and dropped 500 times a day by some dimwit in camo drawers with at least 3 pistols on his person and needs to lose at least 70lbs.

I do my research online, I make a pros and cons list, visit every forum, make note of the bad and good post and then weigh it out for myself. Once I make a decision, then and only then do I search out one to fondle. I could care less what some meat head behind the counter says or much less what he recommends.

I am not saying all gun stores are like I described above, they are not. I am fortunate to live in a gun store mecca, there are at least 15 I can think of within 20 minutes of my house and the majority are great and are manned by very knowledgeable personnel. I can think of 2 that are what I call entertainment stores, I like to go down on Saturday morning, act dumb and listen to the counter conversations. I can barely contain the deep belly laughs sometimes. One rhymes with steeper tan kurt....

Just my 2c

[jocko]

well this is a karh forum and ur gonna get the negatives from disgruntled owners. Just the nature of the beast. all gun forujms go through this. I'm not going to defend kahr, they can do that themselves.They make great guns, some not so great. Seems like Kimbers for their high dollar guns sure go back alot but kimber owners remain loyal.. We have some memers here that do not even own a kahr but yet seem to post the negatives to, so, it is what it is. THE INTERNET

Lots of other good guns out there, people should go to the gun that pleases them.