Bigger P/CW 380?

[ReManG]

I am a long time lurker here, I have shot the P380 (and several other Kahrs in 9mm) and it is a delight, helped the friend of mine that owns it set it up with the info/preps/mods found on this forum.

Here is my question: Would anyone see the need for a larger version of the P380 besides me? (Maybe a "T"380 designator?) I think the P380 is an excellent size and the functionality is beyond anything I experienced with other .380's.

The reason I would like to see a proportionately larger model in .380 is for novice shooters. If Kahr could scale up the P380 to a CW size (NOT THICKNESS HOWEVER) then a smaller stature person would have a skinny 8(or 9)+1, 14oz(?) compact sized 3.5" barrel length pistol that is "just right" as they say. Except it would be about like a strong .22lr pistol for recoil...with all the other Kahr attributes such as simplicity and durability as well as a (theoretical) easy to rack slide.

I think this would be a winning combination for a whole bunch of semi-auto neophytes and would not be intimidating to either shoot or learn the tap-rack-bang manual of arms that semi-autos have. Plus the .380 is not a caliber you would grow out of, it serves a valid function for SD.

I was looking at the Walther PK380 and if you have not handled one, check it out if you can. Racking the slide is easy compared to other pistols due to the locked breech design and .380 lower power recoil springs, but for me it is not the pistol for a neophyte with the "safeties" that are all over it. Still a nice pistol though, but a Kahr version of a "larger" .380 would fill my bill and float my boat.... The other upside would be 8(or 9) round mags for the P380!

[jocko]

Just my 21 cents, I think there would be no real marketr fgor such a gun. 380 has always been know as a deep ccw gun, Get bigger than I would just go with a 9mm or 40 cal in the kahr cm or pm series. Takes alot of start up money for a new line/model.

My prediction is we will see a double stack 9mm sooner than later. No proof of what I am saying either. My 21 cents, is if ur gonna waiste bacn carry a cw or P series, then why not make a DS kahr in sumpin like the CW or cm series. That is an area that kahr has always lacked in any offering as most of the utter gun makes who make sub compact single stack 9 and 40 also offer DS versions to.. Just sayin

[ReManG]

Jocko,

Your 21 cents is worth more than its numerical value, I have gained a lot of knowledge from your posts and the technical forum is gold with your postings. I did not ask the question for people that are experienced shooters for what they would want, but for a design that would accommodate the new shooters with an easy to use semi-auto in a (no caliber wars) center fire caliber. Easy to Rack, Shoot and Carry for neophytes are the thoughts behind this.

I am currently looking for a revolver for the daughter, due to the simple manual of arms (though not reloading) on them. She is a neophyte with handguns and would not shoot enough with a hard-to-shoot handgun (recoil or slide rack). Right now I am leaning toward the 22MAG version of the LCR for a number of reasons. The best reason right now is the ammunition, she can walk in and never get a round that will scare her in the recoil department. I have had experiences with 38 and 357 snubbies that made me pay closer attention to the ammunition selection (try full power 357 in a SP101 for your first firing of a snubbie as a new shooter). So a 38 would not be off the table, but she would have to get lighter recoiling ammunition for it, which may not always be had (not that the markets back to normal anyway).

This is the same thought I am having for the .380 as the basis for a neophyte semi-auto. There is no .380 that is going to kick significantly harder than the lowest factory loading. My limited experience with the P380 showed me this with a range of ammunition up to a half box of Buffalo Bore Hard Cast that was more noticeable, but not 38 spl vs full house 357 level or even 38 spl vs 38spl+P in an alloy frame.

I do think that along the lines you stated "the 380 is always a deep ccw gun" that Kahr rethought that with the PM9 and other "always full size" calibers and reversed that paradigm. If we reverse the 380 paradigm, it may bring in new shooters for semi-autos and let them enjoy shooting a "full size" pistol. I should say "Kahr size" pistol, as they do tend to be slimmer than most comparable handguns.

I agree with the money issues for a new line, but as we have seen with the CM/CW line, Kahr is doing what they can to bring new models in. This is more of a thought exercise than anything else anyway, just wondering out loud....

I am "meh" on a Double Stack Kahr, I have other double stacks that are great, but there is only Kahr for me in the Single Stack realm.......

[jocko]

seeif u can find here a goo dused Makarov. super 380, shots great, easy for a woman to use, far easier to hand rack thqan any kahr made and priced extremely low. Its all steel but ur daughter is not gona ccw it anyways..

Personally IMO a wheel gun s the best gun for a woman and especially a new shooter, easy to use, easy to unload, easy to load, can't jam, not as pleasant as a semi in many ways,. many like the Ruger lcr are extremely lite for carry but expect more recoil. she could even load the birdshop type rounds in tat 38 and not have to be deadon target with that round. Lots of options for a young gal. anyone can pull the trigger butr as u know loading a semi and unloading it and clearing jams are a whole new ball game for most women. They juyst state their extreeme pleasure in liking a semi when it goes bang every time and you have loaded the gun for her to di it with. That is not what it is alla bout as u well know..

[BEARDOG]

Do not think Kahr would make one... but Ruger did a up sized .380, check out the LC380

[ReManG]

BEARDOG,

I do not either, but am just looking to see if there was anyone else in here that had thought something like this. As for the LC380, I feel it is in the same boat as the Walther PK380, a good handgun, but not a simple one. I grew up in a firearm neutral with no possession of them household, so I had to sort things out for myself when I was out on my own. I remember some semi-autos I had that I just did not like due to the "safeties" that got in my way more than they helped. I had an E9 years back, now that was one semi-auto that felt like it should to me, no bells, no whistles, just function and ergonomics. How did you feel the first time you picked up a Kahr? No one here was an expert the first time they picked up a handgun, so I am just reflecting back to that time and thinking what would I have wanted. Simple, soft shooting, easy to carry, decent caliber....yeah a Kahr. I don't have a problem with recoil, some do though, and if you make the simplest, easiest shooting, non micro .380 out there, it would sell IMHO.

[SGT5711]

I was just thinking the other day, I would like to see an all steel K380.

[ReManG]

^ it could be the PT380 version, as in Pocket Tank .380.....

That would be seriously nice though...Recoil, what recoil?

[chrish]

You might check out the Sig P250. They released it in a 380 version last year and you'd have the ability to swap out to 9, 40, 45 later if you like with one of the caliber exchange kits. Not exactly Kahr sized, the P250 is a pretty chunky gun. I had one in 9, love it, but sold it to move on to greener pastures. It's Kahr-like in that there are no safeties, long DAO pull. Basically, it's a high capacity revolver. I believe the 380 is a 15rd capacity setup.

[Docbbc]

Wife and daughter shoot the LCR .357 with .38sp rounds. Hogue grip is awesome. They keep asking when I will take them shooting again.

[Cokeman]

I was just thinking the other day, I would like to see an all steel K380.

I've been wishing for a steel version of the P380 for a long time.

[muggsy]

I think that a up sized version of the P380 would sell. The PPK hasn't done done all that bad sales wise for a lot longer than Kahr has been around. There are shooters who need that half inch of grip and barrel to make the gun more manageable. Hell, I'd buy one just to have one.

[Tomac]

My wife owns two .380's: Her P380 for CCW and a SIG P250 subcompact for nightstand/range duty. While the P250 is significantly larger than the P380, it has a doublestack 12rd mag, a very similar trigger to her P380 (although the P250's trigger is true DAO), the slide is very easy for her to rack and recoil is very mild so she likes to practice w/it (she's petite and recoil-shy and doesn't like to shoot a lot of rds through her P380 when at the range).
Tomac

[ReManG]

Tomac,

Good to hear on the Sig P250, I will check that out when I find one. I think an up sized, but same width P380 would be interesting. A skinny handgun for sure, but definitely easy to shoot with the .380.

Muggsy,

I was thinking of about an inch more barrel length and about 3/4 - 1" longer grip frame for this. I would have to mock it up to get the right sort of dimensions for me, but the issue would be whats good for most people, not just me.

The steel frame P380 would also have some interesting applications for this idea as well. You could change grips obviously, but what about making a set of harder grips out of something like G-10 that extend below the grip providing more purchase? The steel frame would allow this, unlike the polymer. I only think the grip length increase would make new shooters feel more comfortable, and it could be reversed when they gain more experience.

[muggsy]

Whether you add a 1/2" or 1" your still talking about a very small handgun. An inch increase in the grip length would give you 2 more rounds. Hell, I'm open to about anything.