+p Necessary?

[KahrArmed]

I am just wondering if +p is necessary for defense ammo in a P45. I have just been reading a bit about the round not mushrooming in the shorter barreled guns, and just wanna make sure I am running the right ammo. Before I started looking into this I ordered a box of 50 Gold Dot, 230 gr, not +p.

[RRP]

That's a question that's been debated for a long time.

If you have time to watch these Dave Spaulding videos, they may help you decide what you want to carry. If you don't want to watch both, start with the second one.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bWMGBCVtTrM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=myKGVV7xVDI

[wyntrout]

You can try what I carry... the Speer 230-grain Gold Dots Short Barrel. They are designed to perform from a short barreled-pistol. The SB version has wider and shallower cavities, as does the .40 S&W 180-gr SB version... quite different from the regular LE or Duty ammo.

I don't think the .45 needs +P, but the 9mm might. I use the +P 124-gr GDSB.

For .380 I use +P Gold Dots by Buffalo Bore or lately Underwood, since BB hasn't been able to get the GD components.

Some pix of all in this thread:

http://www.kahrtalk.com/showthread.p...bonded+bullets

At the end of the second page Bruce/Ljutic posts two links for his +P 230-gr velocity and penetration tests for Federal HST and Winchester Ranger T ammo.

I DID buy a case of 230-gr +P Gold Dots from Underwood just before the supplies dried up. They are very stout and I think a bit much for regular shooting in the PM45. I'll save those for carbine or G21 use.

Wynn

[muggsy]

Old and proven technology. That guy just described muggsy to a tee. Jocko and Ol Lincoln probably fit into that category as well. Bawanna is just a kid. I like real world results and find autopsy bullets to be a bit more demonstrative than bullets from ballistic gel. Unfortunately it's a bit more difficult to find volunteers for victim testing purposes. Great videos.

[Ikeo74]

You are good to go with the 50 Gold Dots that you bought. Don't worry, you are protected. I just loaded up 50 9mm Gold Dots and the test into water jugs was amazing. I wouldn't want to be shot with a Gold Dot of any caliber or weight.

And I shot them from my 3" barrel MK9. Pictures are available. Beautiful expansion. They are handloads that I made.

[Longitude Zero]

I like real world results and find autopsy bullets to be a bit more demonstrative than bullets from ballistic gel. Unfortunately it's a bit more difficult to find volunteers for victim testing purposes. Great videos.

Post mortem bullet examination is like muggsy posted the definitive result.

[KahrArmed]

Thank you all for your responses. The videos are very good, and he really does have the correct test bullets! Thanks Wynn for the info on the short barrel rounds, I never would have known. I have never seen those available anywhere, but then with the shortage I guess i am lucky to get what I can I guess I will keep my eyes out for some of the short barrel rounds and use the regulars for my 1911.

[KahrArmed]

Wynn, I just found this video, worth checking out. Short barrel v. regular gold dots. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VoH4CMg1Shg

[feedramp]

According to the FBI the only things that matter (ignoring shot placement), are whether or not your chosen round will penetrate enough and how big of a hole it makes. Whether you choose a 9mm, a .40S&W, a .45ACP, or whatever to accomplish that goal.

As long as you can handle your chosen weapon/caliber combo.

[Bawanna]

A good hit with a 22 short is gonna ruin your day. More important things to worry about in life. I don't use +P in anything, never have, no point.

I'm also a Gold Dot fan although I've been using Winchester lately as it's available.

The beauty of the 45 if even with ball its still GOOD.

[berettabone]

I currently use HST's 147 gr. in my MK9, and use the 230 gr. HST's in my .45. I don't think you have to worry too much about all the penetration, expansion hooha.........a .45 makes a BIG hole, no matter what your using.

[wyntrout]

KahrArmed, I checked out that link. Good info and then I watched his .380 ammo test results. There's some good evaluations and discussions of the best .380 ammo. XTP bullets seemed to be the best, but check that out, too:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GNtPHYwcDts&feature=player_detailpage

Wynn

[Longitude Zero]

+P serves a purpose you just have to understand it.


45 with ball is okay and better than nothing but a +P 9mm HP will beat 45 ball. Seen the autopsies to prove it.

[KahrArmed]

Great input guys. here is a link to that guy's YouTube page, has a lot of really good comprehensive info on the effectiveness of multiple rounds up against the FBI standard and with different types of guns. That video you referred to Wynn on the .380s was really good.

http://www.youtube.com/user/Shooting...?feature=watch

[muggsy]

According to the FBI the only things that matter (ignoring shot placement), are whether or not your chosen round will penetrate enough and how big of a hole it makes. Whether you choose a 9mm, a .40S&W, a .45ACP, or whatever to accomplish that goal.

As long as you can handle your chosen weapon/caliber combo.

How can you ignore shot placement? A .22lr through a perp's forehead is going to be far more effective than a .45 ACP through a perp's foot. Just sayin.