Found solution to FTF and failure to return to battery on CW 380

[gb6491]

Greg, did you just file and create a flat spot on the round pin, or did you try to keep it rounded. I filed mine flat. Relative to the slot in the slide, my leading edge of the extractor is now a little bit beyond it, into the ejection port. In otherwords, the edge from which your horizontal blue arrow extends, protrudes slightly beyond the slot in the slide (or into the ejection port).. That's a measure of now much I've removed. I haven't used it enough to see if it makes a difference. I didn't have a major FTF problem before, but I've got a new barrel and slide (Kahr replaced them when they replaced my broken striker) and I am experiencing some...

I kept in rounded. The top, front edge of my extractor is just about even with the ejection port:

With your extractor sitting forward of that, does the barrel interfere with it?
Regards,
Greg

[topgun1953]

Here is what mine looks like. I see that mine is crooked a bit compare to yours. I put in a new extractor to compare, and it too sat the same way. It is still clear of he barrel.

[Macc]

Good question topgun.

[erichard]

It would be interesting to know if people who report no problems with ftf and/or battery have an extractor that lines up where yours does in the picture. Mine does not quite come forward enough to be even (round in the chamber I assume). My guess is if it's just a little too tight that it will slow the overall cycling process and affect feeding in various ways, particularly with thick rimmed casings. I wonder if it could change the feeding of the Lehigh rounds by speeding up the return to battery. There should be some physical explanation as to why some feed the XP and XD rounds and some guns don't (as well as other rounds of course).

I kept in rounded. The top, front edge of my extractor is just about even with the ejection port:

With your extractor sitting forward of that, does the barrel interfere with it?
Regards,
Greg

[Bobshouse]

Great idea, I'll be the first to chime in. My extractor appears to be flush with the ejection port. I have had zero problems with my p380 after the break in period.

[Alfonse]

I looked at mine today after seeing this thread. Without any work on it, it lines up with the edge of the slide like GB6491's.

I think I would have to hit Perfecta rounds with a hammer to get them in the chamber. I understand that isn't always a recommended procedure. I just won't buy those anymore, but was trying to test a variety of ammo.

[tigman250]

I apologize for my lack of attendance, looks like you guys are getting along nicely without me anyway :-)

I hesitate to use looks as the deciding factor as to weather or not you have a problem extractor, we are only talking about removing.005-.010" to get them to work, that's pretty hard to see with the naked eye

[Tilos]

You could use a feeler gauge to measure the gap between the breach face and the extractor hook.
You could also remove some material from the hook, rather than the pivot pin, or some from each.
I believe putting a slight radius on the bottom edge of the extractor hook area, where the case rim makes contact, would help in the overall operation.
That said, I don't have this problem, or even own a 380
Just avoiding the problematic ammo would be something I'd probably do, rather than modifying my gun.
What is the SAAMI specs on the 380 rim thickness?
found it:
http://saami.org/PubResources/CC_Dra...0Automatic.pdf
just sayin'

[tigman250]

You could use a feeler gauge to measure the gap between the breach face and the extractor hook.
You could also remove some material from the hook, rather than the pivot pin, or some from each.
I believe putting a slight radius on the bottom edge of the extractor hook area, where the case rim makes contact, would help in the overall operation.
That said, I don't have this problem, or even own a 380
Just avoiding the problematic ammo would be something I'd probably do, rather than modifying my gun.
What is the SAAMI specs on the 380 rim thickness?
found it:
http://saami.org/PubResources/CC_Dra...0Automatic.pdf
just sayin'

I like my defensive guns to eat anything.

a radius will not solve the problem, the failure to return to battery is caused by extractor to breech face being so tight it does not allow the round being stripped from the mag enough room to tip and be under the extractor. Once it has enough room it slides home effortlessly regardless on weather or not the round is to saami specs.

[Tilos]

I can understand why you think that way.

I posted to offer a way to measure the breach face to claw gap with a feeler gage (or even the shank of number drills) as it is hard to see .005/.015 difference.
I commend you for the work you've done here, and don't mean to minimize it.

As I see it, the extractor moves by pivoting on the trunion you have modified, moving more on a radius, than a linear/flat plane, so the space between the breach face and hook(claw) increases as the extractor moves.
As we all know the extractor is moved by the rim diameter, and allows a extractor touch (protrusion) as a loaded chamber indicator.
The radius I suggested should allow the case rim to cam under/pivot the extractor out of the way, rather than catching on it, should you choose to use ammo with a unique rim.
The SAAMI max rim thickness is helpful to know, so you can modify the extractor to work with all ammo, not just what you have bought/used so far.
This is something I have experienced on other guns, and may not apply here though, as I don't have a 380.
I guess we'll just have to agree that we dis-agree,

[Macc]

Checking in again,
I can now confirm that Mr. Tigman250's fix, totally corrected my "fresh out of the box" issue.
I've reliably have fired over 250 rounds successfully, without a hitch. Following the recommended .010 - .015 changes. I ended up by removing .013 from the back portion of the extractor.
I can even fire fiocchi, with a high degree of success.
It seems that this amount might slightly vary, from gun to gun, obviously, as components vary also.
Next is installing the ultimate striker from Alfonse! http://www.kahrtalk.com/showthread.php?28038-Kahr-380-Striker-Ultimate-

[Alfonse]

Great work!

[spazzwarr]

This is useful information. The outside leading edge of my extractor is "hard" even with the top side of the ejection port. Never experienced the FTB in about 250 rnds. until I shot some S&B ammo marked for "9mm Browning Court/.380 auto. I have shot many different brands of ammo and never had a problem.. I purchased this ammo to shoot in my CZ 24. Loads fine in this gun, probably something to do with tolerances (lol). I'm not sure if S & B marks all their .380 ammo this way. Does anyone know? Going to check S&B's wbesite now. Has any one else had this experience with this?

I do know that 9mm Browning is .380 ammo. I do not know if they are mfrd to the same tight spec. S & B site shows that the above is the current listing type for this ammo.

[dsk]

So let's see now. Kahr .380 fans have engineered solutions for their poor magazine design, poor striker design, and poor extractor design. Is there anything else I missed?

[picrthis]

So let's see now. Kahr .380 fans have engineered solutions for their poor magazine design, poor striker design, and poor extractor design. Is there anything else I missed?

What is the .380 fans engineered solution for the magazine that you speak of?