CW380 defense rounds

[RonW]

I agree with you Ron. The problem is finding a .380 round that will actually expand out of a short barrel like the Kahr's and not end up acting like a ball round anyway. I wish there would be more ballistics gel tests online that didn't use the ridiculous FBI criteria of four layers of heavy denim. Unless you shoot some guy in Wyoming in the dead of winter nobody's wearing four layers of denim. More likely a thin cotton shirt which shouldn't plug up most hollow points.

Some of the tests on you tube shown just that, hollow points clogging up with denim then they act just like a FMJ. I guess it would make a differnce on the weather/part of the country one lives that would determin which type of bullet would be most effective. For example, this part of south texas where I live its mostly summer weather/tee shirts mostly, so I could probably get away with using Hornady's American Gunner XTP which is a hollow point Vs say, Hornady's critical duty which uses their flex tip bullet (plastic thingy on tip) which may give better performance on an assailant wearing a heavy winter coat..

In all my years of life I've never seen anyone wear 4 layers of denim

[SlowBurn]

I like Hornady CD myself, but from what I've read a lot of pretty serious people agree with Muggsy on FMJ 380 ammo. I believe Ayoob is in that camp. Anyway, carrying soft nose ammo is no guarantee that innocents behind the bad guy will be safe. What if you (perish the thought) miss? Unlikely I know, but I'd like to see statistics of how many people have been injured by 380 rounds which completely missed the intended target vs those injured because a 380 round over penetrated the bad guy.

If we're concerned, as we should be, about hitting bystanders, I think practice in re-positioning so "grandma" is out of the line of fire is probably more important than carrying soft nose especially in the 380 caliber.

[RonW]

I like Hornady CD myself, but from what I've read a lot of pretty serious people agree with Muggsy on FMJ 380 ammo. I believe Ayoob is in that camp. Anyway, carrying soft nose ammo is no guarantee that innocents behind the bad guy will be safe. What if you (perish the thought) miss? Unlikely I know, but I'd like to see statistics of how many people have been injured by 380 rounds which completely missed the intended target vs those injured because a 380 round over penetrated the bad guy.

If we're concerned, as we should be, about hitting bystanders, I think practice in re-positioning so "grandma" is out of the line of fire is probably more important than carrying soft nose especially in the 380 caliber.

Everyone can use whatever rounds you feel is necessary to get the job done, with me, I use Hornady's American Gunner XTP's in 380, 9mm & .40S&W in all my carry weapons. Keep in mind that most of Massad Ayoob's book's written on the subject were published back in the late 80's-90's... There's been a lot of advancements in ballistics & bullet selection in the past 10 years for .380. Today's .380 loads are not what grandpa used to use.

[Ron AZ]

I agree with you Ron. The problem is finding a .380 round that will actually expand out of a short barrel like the Kahr's and not end up acting like a ball round anyway. I wish there would be more ballistics gel tests online that didn't use the ridiculous FBI criteria of four layers of heavy denim. Unless you shoot some guy in Wyoming in the dead of winter nobody's wearing four layers of denim. More likely a thin cotton shirt which shouldn't plug up most hollow points.

DSK, the .380 tests most referenced (Shootingthebull) tested all the bullets in both bare gellatin and through denim. So you can look at the results for both.