P380 Jammed/stuck slide - help solve my screwup

[festus]

First of all, my problem was not with Kahr or the pistol - it was of my own making.

I screwed up and I have not excuse, but I am here asking for help to fix it.

The pistol is a new P380 that is my wife's, and we've been getting it broken in - first session was 4 mags full, had a small number of fail to feeds and stovepipes, figured it wasn't anything serious. Couple times slide locked back on mags with ammo still available.

Last night, planned on the same program, shoot 3 or 4 mags full, continuing the breakin period. First mag again had a few hiccups.

Second mag began to lock open the slide after almost every shot. I thought possibly a weak grip might contribute to the slide stop wobbling around and if it also had a weak spring, might be the problem. I fired off a magazine full and didn't have a problem, so my wife again started shooting.

Same thing was occurring, and I was paying attention that her thumbs were not contacting the slide stop and pushing it up during firing.

So I unloaded the pistol, removed the slide stop and pulled the slide assembly off of the frame. Saw nothing out of line, and examined the slide stop, still nothing jumped out at me. Then I re-inserted the slide stop in the frame to visually check the slide stop and spring and how they worked.

Still no problem that I could see.

So I went to re-install the slide assembly.

You see my problem ?? No excuses - I flat failed to remove the slide stop from the frame before putting the slide assembly on the pistol.

Before I realized it, the slide had become stuck. The rear of the slide is about 3/8 in. from the back of the frame.

The slide won't move fore or aft.

The slide stop will not budge out of the frame.

I have tried a plastic hammer and light taps, and nothing will budge.

I am hoping someone out there is able to help me solve my problem.

I feel so dumb.

[Bawanna]

Don't panic, stay away from the large hammers and the bench vise. I'm sure there's a bunch of us already trying to wrap our minds around this.
I can't visualize the slide running over the slide stop to within 3/8" of the back of the frame.
Where's the barrel at in this jammed up situation? Is the barrel hood where it normally is our left behind out front someplace with the barrel sticking out the front?
You no doubt didn't apply an over amount of force to push the slide on so I'm perplexed as to why it's stuck so hard.
If you haven't already I'd be trying to manipulate the slide lock anyway you can move it, also work the trigger a bit without a lot of force so see if it's caught up on something.
I might resort to manipulating the slide lock lever and trying to tap it out or with patience and extreme controll tap the back of the slide forward while wiggling the slide stop.
If you get frustrated and are ready for the big hammer, walk away and play another day, only bad things can happen.
I've heard that if you assemble and miss the barrel lug with the take down lever it's a for sure trip back to kahr. But never heard of installing the slide with the slide lock lever already in place, don't sound possible.
I'm working on this in my head and on my bench in a bit.
Guys we need some help here, put on the tin foil hats and work this out.

[Bawanna]

Ok, some quality bench time with my PM45, I don't have a P380.

I tried to duplicate your situation right up to but not quite getting all jammed up. The 380 might be slightly different but should be very similar. I can now see that the slide could indeed get within 3/8" of the back of the frame with little to no effort.
It appears to be impossible for the feed ramp and locking lug to ride over the take down lever. I just don't see anyway it would even be close to possible. By forcing the slide to the rear it's the perfect wedge setup though. The feed ramp would ride under the takedown lever and jam up against the bottom of the chamber and could easily be very tight.
I'd go with what I mentioned earlier, tap the back of the slide with a rubber or soft face hammer, while trying to move the take down lever. With a little force that takedown lever really should move, other than the jam situation I can't see anything mechanically holding it in place.

Give it a little love and let us know what happens.

[jlottmc]

That was going to be my response, but as I sit here at work, I just can't visualize what is going on too well. It it is rather busy here. Don't give up, we'll get it done.

[festus]

Thanks for the advice. Hope somebody can come up with something.

You are right, I didn't force it on when it initially happened. We were still at the firing line, and it was a quick and simple disassembly, inspect, and re-assembly, and as soon as I ran into resistance, I knew what had happened, and it already had.

The barrel/chamber hood is in it's proper place in the ejection port, and finger pressure will allow it to drop a short 1/16 in.

The slide itself is not jammed solid. It will move fore and aft a short 1/8".

As far as moving the slide stop lever, it will not move or pivot at all. It is solidly in the horizontal position.

As far as the trigger goes, it has complete and free travel, completely thru the extremes of it's travel.

Just a thought, but would popping the trigger pin out and dropping the trigger and any other related parts that might free up do the trick?

If it would help, I could take some pictures and post them, too.

I really dread sending it back in to the factory.

Appreciate your efforts though.

[jlottmc]

I doubt that pulling that pin would do anything but make your head hurt more. Try this then, take a brass drift and bench dog to the slide stop after finding the spot with the least pressure on the stop, and give that a fair whack. You should be able to get to the witness marks to allow the slide stop to come out then. When you get there, line those marks up and pull the slide stop out. It may take a bit of effort, and removing the slide after that may as well.

[festus]

Want to make sure I'm understanding this correctly -

I should use the brass punch on the right side of the slide stop pin once the slide is in the position of least resistance?

Once that pin moves, should it come all the way out, or will I need to move the slide to the witness marks??

I'm not sure that would be possible, because if the pin isn't all the way out of the frame, it would still be interfering with the feed ramp to move any further rearward to get the witness marks to line up.

Maybe I'm not able to visualize exactly what you said.

[Bawanna]

I would definitely not drive out that trigger pin. I don't think it's contributing. The slide still moving back and forth even an 1/8" had got to be a postive sign.
I'm not sure you'll be able to get the witness marks to align, so I'd try moving the barrel up and down and forcing the slide forward without resorting to the big hammer but a good rap. If it looks like the slide stop could clear the slide I'd be trying to knock that out too if you follow. If the slide lock was inserted all the way then the slide will be over the tabs and not able to get past the slide.
Wiggle the barrel, rap on the back of the slide and see what if anything happens. I want to nail this thing today and make my day.

[Bawanna]

Where do ya live festus, I'm coming over.

[jlottmc]

Want to make sure I'm understanding this correctly -

I should use the brass punch on the right side of the slide stop pin once the slide is in the position of least resistance?

Once that pin moves, should it come all the way out, or will I need to move the slide to the witness marks??

I'm not sure that would be possible, because if the pin isn't all the way out of the frame, it would still be interfering with the feed ramp to move any further rearward to get the witness marks to line up.

Maybe I'm not able to visualize exactly what you said.

You have the right idea, if it doesn't move, the play with the barrel. In any event one or both of those will get you disassembled again. I hope Bawanna doesn't have to make a road trip...

[festus]

Thanks guys for the help. I'm in the middle of a cornfield in SouthEast Iowa.

I'm with you now on NOT driving the pin out from the right side and why, I think.

[Bawanna]

Iowa, damn, that's a far piece from Wa. I'll have to stop for gas.

I'm not sure by your last post your with us here. Tapping the takedown lever pin from the right side IS the plan. If you tap it and it moves and the left side tabs clear the slide then yank that puppy right out of there and you should be home free. If you tap it and the left side tabs are hitting inside the slide frame rails your still stuck. Then you'll have to try driving that slide forward wiggling everything possible to free up it's path. I gotta believe a good rap on the back of that slide would push it forward, I don't get what it's hanging up on.
I'll start loading the van, looks like it's gonna be an overnighter.

[festus]

OK, now I am with you. Not sure why I got the one a couple back screwed up.

It does appear by looking carefully from the top as I try and put pressure on the right side of the pin, that the pin wants to move but the rear portion of the slide stop lever on the left side does not.

I agree it's stuck inside the left frame rail. On what is still a mystery to me.

Looking up into the mag well, I can see nothing that appears helpful.

I have tried manipulating the barrel with finger pressure on the chamber in the ejection port, and even putting a wooden pencil in the barrel and trying different directions of pressure there, and even using my third hand to tap on the back of the slide at the same time manipulating the trigger.

Maybe I'm not holding my tongue just right. I'm 'bout ready to walk away and start fresh again later.

If you guys can get me out of this jam, I may have to seriously think of some reward. Dozen ears of good Iowa sweet corn or something.

[Bawanna]

Ok the pencil / dowel trick in the barrel is good. Assuming the takedown lever is indeed inside the slide rails which I gotta believe it is we gotta stick with pushing that slide forward.
The barrel being able to move up and down is really perplexing because that is the part that should be wedged on the slide stop pin. If the barrel is moving up and down that doesn't sound like what's happening.
My next trick if I was in Iowa holding your gun which I may be soon, would be to put the slide in a nicely padded vise with the mag well up. Get the slide nice and snug and wiggle that barrel up and down and pull back with the frame. See if you can get any movement happening. If at any point you get to the witness marks where that slide stop lever would clear the slide, drive it out. Tap it, whatever it takes. It's starting to sound like rather than a wedge situation something has dropped or got snagged somehow but looking at mine, I can't see what the heck it would be. I best go take another look see.

[festus]

OK - that's gonna mean a trip down to the basement workshop.

Good place to stop today.

Thanks a ton, you make me believe I might get out of this yet.

God Bless You, Son.