CW380 and CM9 Carry ammo?

[Papersniper]

I will take delivery on a new CM380 in a week. I have a good stock of FMJ (American Eagle 380 acp FMJ) for the wear in process, but I am thinking ahead to my choice for carry ammunition. I also own a Glock 42, and use Federal Hydra-Shok it in....but then it has no problem with any ammunition I've tried. I'm wondering what SD ammo folks have tried and found to work well or not work. I am mainly interested in these 380 acp offerings:
Hornady 90g XTP (this is not the Critical Defense load)
Fiocchi Extreme XTP (continue to hear good stuff about their loading of the XTP bullet)
Federal Hydra-Shok (old design, but it's a favorite of mine)

So, I understand that Fiocchi FMJ is not a favorite here for wear in, at least in the 380s and 9mms. I also own a CM9, which has functioned well on the wear in ammo I've tried (Blazer Brass, American Eagle, Speer Lawman). But I have not tried any carry ammo yet....I will test Fiocchi's (124 gr XTP bullet) JHP ammo as I have a bunch of it on hand, but I suspect I may have problems as others have reported. Hope not though, as tt is high on my choice for carry ammo. I also plan to try Speer Lawman Gold Dot and Hydr-Shok. Again, what SD ammo have people here tried that works well or doesn't? I like those, but I have no idea how they will function in the little CM9.

IMO, the functioning of the ammo is more important than any "gelatin tests", but obviously I care about penetration and expansion also....but they are less important.

Thanks for your input.

[topgun1953]

It seems a lot of people carry critical defense in their Kahr 380s. After Shooting The Bull did his research I prefer to carry anything with the XTP bullet in it. I've used Hornady XTP, Pecision One, Fiocchi, Freedom, and currently Underwood +P XTP, all without issue. I favor HSTs in my 9mm, although not a Kahr.....Sig P938

[Papersniper]

It seems a lot of people carry critical defense in their Kahr 380s. After Shooting The Bull did his research I prefer to carry anything with the XTP bullet in it. I've used Hornady XTP, Pecision One, Fiocchi, Freedom, and currently Underwood +P XTP, all without issue. I favor HSTs in my 9mm, although not a Kahr.....Sig P938

Thanks for that report.

I just ordered 100 rounds of 9mm Fiocchi 147g XTP to try in my new CM9 and Walther PPS M2, plus my S&W Shield and M&P 9c. I like the heavier bullets, and I've heard such good thinks about that XTP and the Fiocchi loading. Hopefully it will function fine in my CM9, but I have enough other pistols in which I can use it if required. I doubt I carry the CM9 very often, as I got it 95% for when I take trips on my motorcycle.

I also ordered 100 rounds of Fiocchi 380acp 90g XTP for the little CW380, although I plan to test it also in my Glock 42. The latter pistol is what I have carried when I ride my motorcycle. So, again if the Fiocchi doesn't do well in the CW380 I can use it in the Glock, which so far is not picky about what it's fed.

[kwh]

Seems to be tough to find the sweet spot for adequate penetration + good expansion in the short barrels. For me, in short barrel .380 XTP bullets; Federal HST in 9mm short barrel.

[geogecko]

Currently using Magtech for range ammo, as it seems to run fairly clean, and was the cheapest of the 4 I tried.

For carry ammo, I'm currently using Hornady Custom XTP, not the CD version, and have had no issues.

[Papersniper]

Currently using Magtech for range ammo, as it seems to run fairly clean, and was the cheapest of the 4 I tried.

For carry ammo, I'm currently using Hornady Custom XTP, not the CD version, and have had no issues.

Gosh, Hornady has so many load variations for their XTP bullet!

[TimtheRef]

Gosh, Hornady has so many load variations for their XTP bullet!

The Critical Defense line uses the FTX bullet, not the XTP.

[SaltyNC]

I've been using Precision One XTP in .380. Before I would trust it, I ran several hundred rounds though my CW380, and I didn't have any failures. That's the nice thing about Precision One (at least back when I bought it) -- it was not expensive, and really allowed me to test it. Still, when I grab an unopened box from my stock, I always randomly pick a 10% sample from a 50-round box and test fire it to ensure I don't encounter a bad "batch." It gives me a higher degree of confidence. I don't think you can go wrong with any of the XTP loads in .380 as long as they feed reliably in your pistol. Still experimenting and playing with the new ARX bullets. Just don't know yet on those.

Salty

[Papersniper]

The Critical Defense line uses the FTX bullet, not the XTP.

I did not know that, thanks for the info.

[TimtheRef]

I did not know that, thanks for the info.

Glad to help. The Hornady loads their XTP bullet in both the American Gunner and Hornady Custom labels. I honestly wish I knew more about the difference between the two bullets, but I do at least know this much. That's something.

[Papersniper]

Got to the range today to try some carry ammo now I've run 200+ rounds of FMJ through my CM9.
I had with me only Fiocchi, both the 124g and 147g XTP "Extrema" loading.

Results:
Fiocchi 124g XTP - Near perfect; in function, accuracy (a little low), and "comfort". I shot the CM9 testing carry ammo the same day I shoot a new Walther PPS M2 9mm, expecting the PPS to be much more pleasant to shoot since it weights more. However, I did not find the difference significant.

Fiocchi 147g XTP - I prefer heavier loads, and my CM9 printed better with 147g FMJs than the lighter ones. That has been my experience with most of the 9mm pistols I own. With this heavier bullet the Fiocchi carry load was danged on top of my POA; a very pleasant surprise! This will be my CM9 carry load. I really see no reason to try anything else.

The Kahr CM9 actually outs hot my new Walther PPS, which really surprised me, but then the PPS is new and will probably do better as it gets used to me and me to it.

[SaltyNC]

The Kahr CM9 actually out shot my new Walther PPS, which really surprised me, but then the PPS is new and will probably do better as it gets used to me and me to it.

Say it ain't so. Wow, that surprises me about the PPS M2 even with it being a new gun for you. Really the only reason I'm considering it is due to the great shootability I keep hearing about. The PPS M2 is heavy with low capacity (Magguts is working on a +1) and truly a waist pistol, so if the CM9 does as well or better in the ease of shooting area, I may have to take the Walther off my list. I don't know why I developed the hots for it, anyway. I think it is like that ugly redhead in high school that was still somehow sexy. I've just got to try it -- the Walther PPS M2, that is. My sexy ugly redhead days are long since past me. Hope to find a rental of the PPS M2 soon.

The CM9 is really ideal, since it will fit IWB or in a pocket with ease, and still give a nice capacity of 9mm. Can you imagine the CM9 with those polymer bullets like the ARX if those prove themselves. Talk about light. My keys are probably heavier.

Salty

[Papersniper]

"Say it ain't so. Wow, that surprises me about the PPS M2 even with it being a new gun for you. Really the only reason I'm considering it is due to the great shootability I keep hearing about. The PPS M2 is heavy with low capacity (Magguts is working on a +1) and truly a waist pistol, so if the CM9 does as well or better in the ease of shooting area, I may have to take the Walther off my list. I don't know why I developed the hots for it, anyway. I think it is like that ugly redhead in high school that was still somehow sexy. I've just got to try it -- the Walther PPS M2, that is. My sexy ugly redhead days are long since past me. Hope to find a rental of the PPS M2 soon.

The CM9 is really ideal, since it will fit IWB or in a pocket with ease, and still give a nice capacity of 9mm. Can you imagine the CM9 with those polymer bullets like the ARX if those prove themselves. Talk about light. My keys are probably heavier.

Salty"

Glad you found my post of my mini-review of the two pistols with carry Fiocchi ammo. IMO, the most important thing about a carry gun, assuming perfect function, is how well it meets my needs. The two pistols are totally different in that regard I think. And I like your redhead analogy; I feel the same way! The Walther is much more fun to shoot, but I was surprised that the little CM9 was not that much less. In my "needs" case, I wanted a small 9mm share carry duties with my Glock 42 when I take trips on my motorcycle. On my motorcycle I require a pistol that is small and light and easily concealed. I do not want to carry something the size of a PPS, Shield, etc. That's why I got the CM9 - for my motorcycle....but still it will make an excellent off-the-bike carry pistols also I have learned!

I need to define accuracy as I use it here: Groups nearest to my POA are accurate, as long as the group size is not over about 4-6 inches at yards. I neither need nor expect tiny groups from a carry pistol, so my definition might be different than others. Since my POA with a carry pistol is always center of mass, those pistols and loads that have the closest POI are my favorites.

While the CM9 was more accurate that the PPS with the 124 and 147 gr Fiocchi XTP carry loads, it is NOT with 115 gr FMJ loads. Now while ordinarily FMJ accuracy in a carry pistol is not very important to me, I do practice 90% with FMJ and I do like accuracy: BUT it's MUCH more important how accurate the pistol is with carry ammo.

In the Walther's case, with 115, 124 gr FMJ it was more accurate than the CM9 with the two carry loads above; it printed closer to POI with the lighter bullets. That's the opposite of my other 9mm pistols. Comparing JHP to FMJ is a little like comparing apples to oranges I know. But, I suspect that the Walther will be more accurate with a lighter weight JHP bullet. I ordered a box of Fiocchi 115 gr XTPs to try on the next range trip. Darn it, I have some 115 gr Gold Dots in the ammo closet but didn't take them yesterday. I prefer the heavier carry bullets, but if my PPS is significantly more accurate with Fiocchi 115 gr XTPs (or Gold Dots) then I might have to use that only in the Walther. It was okay with the 124 gr FTX, but I'd prefer a bit more accuracy if I can get it.

So, I have not really helped your decision I don't believe. I cannot imagine choosing one over the other, although I have no "tiny" 9mms other than the CM9, and I have several "sub compact/compact" 9mms. The closest 9mm in form and function to the PPS I think is my S&W Shield, although I THINK I am going to like the PPS a bit more than the Smith. Only negative is the PPS' 6 round "flush" carry magazine (same as the tiny CM9!), while the Smith has an extra round in its flush magazine. I generally don't use the "extended" magazines in any of my carry pistols.

[jonholl]

"Only negative is the PPS' 6 round "flush" carry magazine (same as the tiny CM9!), while the Smith has an extra round in its flush magazine. I generally don't use the "extended" magazines in any of my carry pistols."

Thanks for the excellent "mini" review, guess I'll pass on the Walther as it would be for pocket carry also.
I put Pearce extensions on my Kahr 6 round magazines & ground them down (as per another forum member) so my little finger "just" has a rest. For me this consisted of grinding off the "tail" that flares out, then smoothing with a file, works perfect for me & fits in my pocket without printing.

[Papersniper]

"Only negative is the PPS' 6 round "flush" carry magazine (same as the tiny CM9!), while the Smith has an extra round in its flush magazine. I generally don't use the "extended" magazines in any of my carry pistols."

Thanks for the excellent "mini" review, guess I'll pass on the Walther as it would be for pocket carry also.
I put Pearce extensions on my Kahr 6 round magazines & ground them down (as per another forum member) so my little finger "just" has a rest. For me this consisted of grinding off the "tail" that flares out, then smoothing with a file, works perfect for me & fits in my pocket without printing.

I did not find that I needed any sort of finger extension on the CM9's 6 round magazines. I had anticipated having difficulty shooting that small CM9, but it proved not to be the case.

BTW, I just cleaned the CM9 and the PPS; what a difference! The Kahr is a really female-dog to take down and reassemble, there just is no better way of saying that! I suppose I will continue to get better at it, but that PPS is so very, very easy! Not an over ridding concern, but I know I will tend to shoot the Kahr less than other pistols just because of the finicky take down.

Yeah, I am not really one for pocket carry, but I'd agree the PPS is too large and heavy for that. Much better on the belt. However, I feel that way about the CM9 also; I have an Kydex IWB Holster from Roth Holsters that I really like. I even prefer belt carry for a CW380 I have on order, although I have ordered a pocket holster for it to try......