Tight .45 chamber

[jg rider]

Hello all,
There's a CW 45 I'm interested in. But it seems to have a problem. It won't chamber all rounds. It is a barrel problem. If I try to drop in live factory rounds some will fall right in and some stick. The chamber seems to be tapered at the lead end. I can take these same rounds and drop them into my tight match grade 1911 Bar Sto barrel chambers with no problems.
I took these same factory rounds and ran them through a Lee Factory Crimp Die and then the will drop in.

Also the plating in the chamber is peeled almost the whole bottom length of the chamber. This was purchase new.

Has anyone else experienced issues like i described ?

[Bawanna]

In the past we heard of the plating peeling in the chamber and sometimes the barrel.

Might be worth contacting Kahr and explaining the situation. Maybe you'd get lucky and they would send a new barrel.

[gb6491]

Hello all,
There's a CW 45 I'm interested in. But it seems to have a problem. It won't chamber all rounds. It is a barrel problem. If I try to drop in live factory rounds some will fall right in and some stick. The chamber seems to be tapered at the lead end. I can take these same rounds and drop them into my tight match grade 1911 Bar Sto barrel chambers with no problems.
I took these same factory rounds and ran them through a Lee Factory Crimp Die and then the will drop in.

Also the plating in the chamber is peeled almost the whole bottom length of the chamber. This was purchase new.

Has anyone else experienced issues like i described ?

I have three CW45 barrels; none had adequate leade/free bore from the factory for the use of XTP style bullets.

There is discussion about this here: http://www.kahrtalk.com/showthread.p...745#post354745
As a fix, I cut my barrels fairly deep:

We have a member here (DougGuy) that does this on a professional basis (certainly much better than what I did with my drill press ):
http://www.kahrtalk.com/showthread.p...217#post358217

Bawanna has given good advice about the plating issue. Myself, I've quit worrying about it. All my Kahr barrels show some type of plating wear or degree of loss. To top that off, the one I use in my CW45 is machined roughly. I bought it used, so I've no idea if it was a second or what the story is. It does shoot well.

Regards,
Greg

[tony k]

My CW45 has a short throat too. For example, regular fmj ammo loaded to 1.260" will not pass the plunk test as described by the OP. I load them to 1.240 and have no problems.

The plating on my CM9 barrel is flaking off on the Feed ramp, in the slide stop pin hole, and on the exterior where it's stamped "9mm." I'd care if it affected reliability or accuracy, but it doesn't, so I don't.

[jg rider]

I sent the guy who currenty has the piece this thread to read. Here's what he wrote back.

"I went through the entire post. What most of those guys appear to be describing is a short cut on the throat/lead. In my condition, its hanging up on the mouth of the case just before hitting the lip of the chamber. When running the rounds that wont chamber through the lee factory crimp die, the carbide donut that is supposed to confirm sizing (or resize if necessary) just barely makes contact with the case. What I had to do was apply some additional crimp to the case mouth in order to get the rounds to drop into the chamber. What this tells me, is that if the loaded round will slide into the lee factory crimp die with little or no resistance, then the loaded round is within SAAMI specs. I see no scrapings or other markings on the 230gr jacketed ball projectile which is going need the least amount of throat/lead of any other bullet design that I can think of... aside from a true wad-cutter I suppose! Also, you might point out in the forum that the differences between the rounds that would fit and the ones that would bind, mic'd out at only about .001" difference in every measurement so it wasn't a batch that slipped through the cracks. On another note, I was showing my dad what I had found today and what do you know - he tells me that he has been having that problem all along. Says that in some cases he has to pull the mag, rack the slide, and chamber a new round to get it going again because that round is just too tight. He said on others, all he had to do was give the back of the slide a good rap with his palm and it would go the rest of the way into battery. Point being, unbeknown to me, this didn't suddenly become apparent when I was dabbling with my reloads"

[gb6491]

I sent the guy who currenty has the piece this thread to read. Here's what he wrote back.

"I went through the entire post. What most of those guys appear to be describing is a short cut on the throat/lead. In my condition, its hanging up on the mouth of the case just before hitting the lip of the chamber. When running the rounds that wont chamber through the lee factory crimp die, the carbide donut that is supposed to confirm sizing (or resize if necessary) just barely makes contact with the case. What I had to do was apply some additional crimp to the case mouth in order to get the rounds to drop into the chamber. What this tells me, is that if the loaded round will slide into the lee factory crimp die with little or no resistance, then the loaded round is within SAAMI specs. I see no scrapings or other markings on the 230gr jacketed ball projectile which is going need the least amount of throat/lead of any other bullet design that I can think of... aside from a true wad-cutter I suppose! Also, you might point out in the forum that the differences between the rounds that would fit and the ones that would bind, mic'd out at only about .001" difference in every measurement so it wasn't a batch that slipped through the cracks. On another note, I was showing my dad what I had found today and what do you know - he tells me that he has been having that problem all along. Says that in some cases he has to pull the mag, rack the slide, and chamber a new round to get it going again because that round is just too tight. He said on others, all he had to do was give the back of the slide a good rap with his palm and it would go the rest of the way into battery. Point being, unbeknown to me, this didn't suddenly become apparent when I was dabbling with my reloads"

Good gouge and corresponds with discussion we've had on the forum in regards to factory crimping 45ACP for use in Kahr pistols.
I think it a good thing this type of discussion gets bumped to the top of the forum every so often. Thanks!
Regards,
Greg

[Ikeo74]

Whenever I have that kind of a problem it is the exact reason shown in Greg's picture. The remedy is to shorten the OAL or change bullet styles as indicated in the picture. If you have to shorten the OAL you might to need to use less powder if you are loading maximum loads.

[jg rider]

Whenever I have that kind of a problem it is the exact reason shown in Greg's picture. The remedy is to shorten the OAL or change bullet styles as indicated in the picture. If you have to shorten the OAL you might to need to use less powder if you are loading maximum loads.

The problem isn't a short chamber. It's a chamber that seems to taper to a smaller diameter just before the rifling. Some factory rounds that go through a Lee Factory Crimp Die with no resistance won't seat all the way into the chamber

[Ikeo74]

Just crimp them a little more if you are a reloader. If you only shoot factory ammo, don't buy any more of the brand that wont seat all the way. Buy the ones that fit. It's an ammo problem, not a fault of the gun.

[Bawanna]

I don't totally agree myself. A 45 should shoot any 45 ammo one can find. Maybe not shoot all of it well but it should chamber and go bang.

Same with 9 and 40 etc. I suspect the specs on the barrel are a bit tight and the specs on some of the ammo is a bit loose.

I'd go with Gregs plan and ream it out straight and true.

[Ikeo74]

Unless you are a professional gunsmith, better not take a drill to your barrel chamber. I can guarantee that it will not end well for you.

[Bawanna]

JG I don't believe is a pro gunsmith but he's got serious talent. I've seen some of his work and he could make a go of that gunsmithing.

Agreed taking a drill to your barrel chamber is not for the faint of heart.
BUT it does sound like it just needs to be squared up, maybe not even throated too much.

[jg rider]

Just crimp them a little more if you are a reloader. If you only shoot factory ammo, don't buy any more of the brand that wont seat all the way. Buy the ones that fit. It's an ammo problem, not a fault of the gun.

LOL,

I own 7 .45 1911's all with tight match grade chambers / barrels from Bar Sto, Wilson, Briley, etc, 1 Mech Tech .45 coversion unit for a 1911, a 625 S&W .45 acp revolver.
The guy who has this Kahr pistol owns 2 Glock .45's, a .45 Mech Tech conversion unit, a 1911 .45 and some others.
What your saying is that the Kahr pistol is not at fault, but all these other pistols are flawed because all the .45 rounds we tried chambered in those barrels without any problem

[Ikeo74]

LOL,

I own 7 .45 1911's all with tight match grade chambers / barrels from Bar Sto, Wilson, Briley, etc, 1 Mech Tech .45 coversion unit for a 1911, a 625 S&W .45 acp revolver.
The guy who has this Kahr pistol owns 2 Glock .45's, a .45 Mech Tech conversion unit, a 1911 .45 and some others.
What your saying is that the Kahr pistol is not at fault, but all these other pistols are flawed because all the .45 rounds we tried chambered in those barrels without any problem

What I am saying is that Khars have a short lead and fatter bullets get stuck in them and won't chamber, more pointed bullets will not hit the leads and chamber without difficulty. 1911 have a longer lead and don't have this problem. So use a different bullet with a different profile (ones that fit) and the problem will be gone. Greg posted pictures of the lead problem in this thread. He corrected the problem by making the lead longer just like your 1911.

[jg rider]

What I am saying is that Khars have a short lead and fatter bullets get stuck in them and won't chamber, more pointed bullets will not hit the leads and chamber without difficulty. 1911 have a longer lead and don't have this problem. So use a different bullet with a different profile (ones that fit) and the problem will be gone. Greg posted pictures of the lead problem in this thread. He corrected the problem by making the lead longer just like your 1911.

Maybe I wasn't clear enough. The problem isn't a short chamber. It's an extra tight chamber. Some rounds protrude out the barrel hood. The case mouth and the bullet don't come any where near the rifling or the head space mark. I stuck a dowel down the barrel to measure the distance the bullet goes in.

Also these same factory rounds will go through a Lee Factory Crimp Die without having to tighten the crimp. My original post was to ask if anyone else had a tight chamber issue.

Also I wrote there's the issue of the plating peeling the entire length of the bottom of the chamber. I find this to be unexceptable. I know others here including my son have this issue. We have 2 Elite 98 K9's and 2 PM9's from around 2000, with more rounds through them I believe than any one else here has. There's no peeling anywhere.

We were going to buy a P9 or a K9 for my grand daughter, but because of the cosmetically flawed pieces that are now coming out from Kahr I'll look somewhere else.