Bad Habits

[bigmacque]

[QUOTE=Bawanna45cal;43612]The biggest step in fixing something that is broken is recognizing that it's broken in the first place. Your way ahead of the game and have already come up with a game plan to fix it.

QUOTE]

I knew there was something I liked about you ....

That's the very same advice a baseball coach gave me once, almost 40 years ago, and to this day it remains one of the wisest things I've ever heard.

[Bawanna]

[QUOTE=bigmacque;43719]

The biggest step in fixing something that is broken is recognizing that it's broken in the first place. Your way ahead of the game and have already come up with a game plan to fix it.

QUOTE]

I knew there was something I liked about you ....

That's the very same advice a baseball coach gave me once, almost 40 years ago, and to this day it remains one of the wisest things I've ever heard.

Dang, I fell out of my chair on the floor, but I'm ok. Do you mind if I see if JohnH would allow this post in the advertising header banner?
I think thats the nicest thing anyone has ever said to me.
On top of that you apparently are a mind reader as I used to coach little league for many years and I used that precise statement alot both in baseball and other facets of life.
I can't thank you enough for the kind words. Really make a guys day.

[jocko]

yes indeed

Many moons ago, I had a chance to shoot with and watch some of the masters of the mid and late 80's. I stood behind Rob Leatham, Brian Enos, and a number of others and watched them do thier magic with comp'd race gun 1911s. I watched Jerry Miculik do things with a S&W wheel gun that nobody should be able to do. NONE of those guys started out shooting that way. It was many hours and many rounds and lots of serious training and equipment and modifications that got them there. I learned alot from Rob Leatham but I never could shoot like those guys. Kahr triggers are good at doing what they are supposed to do and maybe the right person with the right determination could learn to race them, but I'll be satisfied to just be proficient with mine in the ways I need to be, when I need to be.
{Pssst, I even had a beer with Col Jeff Cooper once.}
There, I'm done bragging now.

garyb is right on with the trigger talk but I was too lazy to try to put it into words and he did a better job than I could have anyway.

I rubbed elbows once at the NSGA show in Louisville with Todd Jarrett, what a thrill. Thinking that this rub would make me a better shooter, I went home after that and sot just as horrible as I did before the elbow rub thing. :31::31:

These guys truly do amaze me. They are not human.. Especially Jerry Mucliak.

[mr surveyor]

This is a topic I used to wrestle with quite often, but the last few years I have resolved most of my issues by focusing on the practical side.

Here's the three main components of my thinking on firearms in general, which can then be broken down into perfecting (to one's God given abilities) their application:

1. Firearms used for personal self or home defense

2. Firearms used for obtaining food

3. Firearms used for recreation

Having certain vision problems that apparantly can not be corrected without special measures for each situation (and now no satisfactory correction for some visual ranges), I have had to adapt. I won't go into details, but lets just say there is no single "fix", or combination of fixes that I can apply 24/7 for all purposes. Several years ago I worked on quite a few little experiments that greatly improved my vision at the range on static targets, which fit the bill for my above Category 3, then I realized that those measures would NOT work at all with Categories 1 and 2. At the firing line on the range I finally realized I was fooling myself into believing my accuracy skills were really improving, and began to develop a bit of false security concerning my SD and hunting skills. When I finally took off all the extra range shooting vision tools and tried to shoot the same targets with my normal "walk around" vision, I realized that there was a huge difference in the above listed three categories of firearms use. Competition shooting, whether it's in a match or just self improvement competition on staged targets allows you a great deal of time for preparation, of your shooting equipment as well as your ability to pre-program your mind to the course. Self defense and home defense type training only allows you to think in general terms involving situational awareness and contingency planning. Hunting, in my opinion, is closer to the self defense type application, although it could be considered "proactive" rather than "reactive", and does allow the shooter to apply a certain amount of specialized equipment for the intended target of the hunt.

Where am I going with this ramble???? My opinion is that if one is really focusing on any one of the above three categories their training should be done in the identical conditions they would experience when in the actual execution of that categorical use. In other words, if you don't walk around all day with special corrective shooting glasses, why in the world would you want to train for defensive shooting while wearing them. Different types of hunting, particularly where the shooter has time to analyze range, wind, etc., may allow the application of various "aids", but snap shooting winged creatures, squirrels, rabbits, etc. most likely won't. Again, in my opinion, fooling yourself at the range with all the "aids" that most likely would not be available in a real world situation is one of the number one Bad Habits we all succomb to. As long as the aids are made as an integral part of the firearm, such as scope, night sight, laser, flashlight, etc., that do not require the user to take any other action than obtain a sight picture and send a round down the tube, then I would suggest a return to the basics of using only what God gave you when training.

Other Bad Habits that can be overcome are over analyzing every shot, and shooting too much. Over analyzing for me normally results in over adjustment and throwing even larger monkey wrenches into the gears. Excessive shooting while looking for the magic answer will slip in the unwanted, and often overlooked condition of shooter's fatigue. I have a couple of close friends that are lifelong hunters/shooters/reloaders that never shoot more than 2-3 rifle rounds, 6-8 handgun rounds, or half a box of shotgun rounds on any given day, and ALL of those rounds are effective. Same as a close friend that devotes all of his deer season to his bow....a couple of months prior to bow season he will step out his back door every morning and send one single arrow to his target. These guys shot enough rounds with their selected weapons to learn how to operate them, find weapons that fit their hands, and then practice in "real world" conditions just enough to maintain their skill level (and condition of their selected tools) without getting into the vicious cycle of over analyzing the minutia.

So, to make a long ramble a bit longer, I would say that to isolate the "Bad Habits", first decide exactly which of the three categories of firearms applications you are most interested in, and focus only on the basics.

sorry, it's Saturday and I'm looking for something to keep me from my chores


surv

[jocko]

well said surveyor.. In my case I shoot my pM9 horrable for hitting beer cans at 25 yards but I shoot it very good at 7 yards for personal defense. I fall into the #1 categoary in that sense, but that being said I love to shoot my PM9 and the thought of just going out and shooting one or two magazines through it, would kill me. It is indeed my defense gun but it is also your/my #3 gun to. I have set my mind to accept that I won't be knocking beer cans at 25 yards with it as I might with my G19 but for me I love to shoot and I am sure that the more I shoot at any one session, the bad habits will float to the top for as u stated, one gets tired, sloppy etc. I realize that part of it but it doesnt bother me that much. I know I can hit something at 7 yards in the first 2 magazines about every time and after that when sloppiness sets in, I accept that for what it is BUT I am still hearing that BANG thing and that for me is relaxing.

Hell i get bored even shooting 2" groups with my G19 at 10 yards. I also accept the fact that I am 67 years old, wear bifocuals, don't hear for sh-t, back hurts 90% of the time, but about one year ago, I went out to my range and there was an old timer whom I have know for over 50 years, he is 94 years of age, can hardly walk, no hearing, damn near bent over when walking,and I am sure his sight is very bad, and what the hell was he doing. He was sighting in his ruger 10/22 at 20 yards with a scope on it. I doubt if it bothered him to much about getting tired etc, or maybe even hitting the target as consistant as he felt he should.
I felt so touched about that event, that I stopped by Wal-mart on the way home and bought his a Federal 550 pak of 22 LR ammo and took it to his home. He cried, but I can remember many many years ago that this ol man was known in the area as one hell of a shooter..

[earle8888]

Wow. Jacko I'm supprized! I moved from a 1911 style, ie Colt Dbl Egl to a Glock 19 for carry it took a full CASE of ammo to get the trigger feal half way right. The Kahr P45 took less than 300 rounds and was shooting more accurate than most of my 45's. Thats with a shorter barrel!!!!
Also, For-what-ever-its-worth, using an empty, i.e. UNLOADED, Kahr with CTlaser to shoot the TV knobs or door knobs will watching the news, will really improve your trigger action and mussle memory.

[earle8888]

Well Mr. Surveyor has some wisdom in his piece. Jacko, I didn't mean anything derrogatory. Any gun you shoot well is a good gun. The more comfortable you are with a reliable gun the better it is, especially for personal defense. Just that I think the DAO Safety trigger on Glocks is far harder to searn to shoot well that the Kahr , not much longer, but smooth consitance trigger.

[rkirk]

Bad Habits

It will take a few days to sort through some of these excellent ideas. I see the wisdom of defining the main goal of any firearm especially one carried by a citizen for self defense. I will gather my thoughts and make a longer reply Monday. Until then thank you for sharing your experience and ideas! Of course more is okay, I learn by talking and sharing, thanks guys.

-- Richard

[mr surveyor]

I wouldn't claim that any of my rambling is based on wisdom. It's just based on personal experience and observations that seem to fit my needs to justify my actions. Basically, nothing more than my personal opinions.


surv


oh, and let me clarify one particular detail..... I do love to shoot, and never seem to get enough trigger fun in before I run out of ammunition or time. I do try to compartmentalize my shooting sessions though to fit my described categories. If I'm shooting any SD weapon on a range trip, even if I plan on an extended session, the first two magazines are always dedicated to shooting with the same "aids", or lack thereof, as I would have on any given day or time, and expect nothing more (or less) than "combat accuracy".

[jocko]

and

Wow. Jacko I'm supprized! I moved from a 1911 style, ie Colt Dbl Egl to a Glock 19 for carry it took a full CASE of ammo to get the trigger feal half way right. The Kahr P45 took less than 300 rounds and was shooting more accurate than most of my 45's. Thats with a shorter barrel!!!!
Also, For-what-ever-its-worth, using an empty, i.e. UNLOADED, Kahr with CTlaser to shoot the TV knobs or door knobs will watching the news, will really improve your trigger action and mussle memory.

u might be right on the Glock trigger to. But I had my G19 tuned and reworked from the day I bought it, so I never suffered that creepy glock trigger that some indeed talk about. One thing about a kahr trigger, it is never creepy, it is loooong by design but I know of no semi that ahs as smoot of a trigger system out of the box. Really notmuch one can ever do to a kahr to help the smoothness of the trigger even. They are jsut that good and certainly rounds down range willsmooth what isleft out as good as anys mitty can do.

I had a Smith M & P that had the worlds worst trigger in it, absolutley the worst, I sent it off to get reworked and that trigger after that was so smooth and perfect.
Credit Dave Bowie of Bowie tactical for that job. It was almost like shooting a single action semi, it was just that smooth, actually kinda scary even. I peddled it as that trigger to me was just to scary..

earle 8888, no harm no foul, u didn't say anything that I disagreed with you about.

[sharpetop]

An thats the truth right there. Unlearning bad things is not easy.

I laugh at new folks at the range that break out their shiney new gun, run the target down to the 25 yard line and start blasting, while I have my target at 3 yards with an old friend for a gun.

I do seem to have very good days and very bad days. On the bad days I think it's almost best to just knock off, BS with the range guys and try again another day.

Anyone else experience this phenomonen?

Hell, there are times I will pack up several guns and head to the range and not fire a shot! I'll start BSing with the rangemaster or some guys I know and not even pull the guns out of the truck. It's still a better day than sticking around the house with the wife's list of things to do.

[Vincent]

Finger Pad Pressure

These little pistols will punish you if you use the wrong part of your trigger finger to pull the trigger. Which part of the finger pad is important with any pistol but with the long trigger pull in a light pistol the CW9 or P9 it is critical.

What am I talking about? Some of this is VERY basic so bare with me because I have had even long time shooters not understand this.

For a right handed shooter:

If the trigger is being pulled with the part of the pad too close to the knuckle it will pull the shot to the right.

If the trigger is pulled with the pad too close to the tip it will push the shot to the left.

When you can dry fire and watch your sights and they do not move left or right during the pull you have it right. Depending on hand size the trigger should be midway between between the tip and the knuckle. Fine tuning this pull will be a very good thing for your score on the target.

I use a "snap cap" and practice watching the sights without making corrections with your hand. When you can pull the trigger and the sights do not pull or push that is what you want.

Excuse me if this seems too basic but it is the basics that make shooting easier.

[jocko]

vincent, sometime explaining the basics to us whom sometimes we think we know it all is a very good thing...Nice post.

[jeep45238]

Absolutely.

YouTube - Trigger Pull

It seems to help out a lot of people.

[Allblackedout]

Absolutely.

YouTube - Trigger Pull

It seems to help out a lot of people.

Nice post