CW9 concern

[Paladin]

I'm gonna go out on a limb here and hope everyone doesn't line up to hack the limb off while I'm sitting on it.

It's about metal shavings found in the striker channel of my CW9. When I cleaned mine after my first range session, I did a detailed disassembly of the slide and found what at first appeared to be brass shavings in the striker channel. Lot's of them.

Now I know this has been discussed here more than once. But I've seen numerous theories on what causes it, with no solid conclusions. I also haven't see any official response from Kahr. So I called Kahr. Their official position is this is normal and will never interfere with the operation of the gun. I may disagree on both statements.

Let me say at this point that I am an old fogey who has been shooting and working with guns of every type since about the time I learned to walk. I am also a part time gunsmith. While this is my first experience with Kahr firearms, it is certainly not my first experience with any number of others.

Having said that, I can say with absolute certainty that this is NOT normal behavior for a semi-automatic pistol. A detailed examination of the gun and spent casings reveal that these aren't brass shavings, as many state, but rather copper. They are coming from the primer, not the cartridge case.

When I examined some spent cases, I paid particular attention to the dimple made by the firing pin. In every case, there is a gouge on one side of the dimple. This gouge exactly fits the profile of the firing pin tip. This tells me that when the breach begins to unlock and drops, the firing pin is still pushed into the primer. As the casing face is pulled down, the firing pin tip is gouging the primer and shaving a small flake of copper off. This is getting forced into the firing pin hole and pulled back into the striker channel when the striker does finally retract.

Again, Kahr contends this is normal. It is not. My 1911 does not do it. My XD does not do it. I can name a list of other guns I own, or have owned that do not exhibit this behavior. And although not a major issue, it is cause for concern. I can see two possible issues arising from this.

One, if the buildup in the channel becomes severe over time, it could restrict the movement of the striker. I could see this causing things like light strikes.

The second issue comes from the fact that, after my last firing session, some of the shavings were found to be working their way back along the striker channel. If they were to work their way back, over an extended period, and reach the striker block safety, they could interfere with the operation of the safety.

Now, as I said, I'm new to Kahr firearms. I don't presume to think that I know everything about them. I can't say this will definitely cause problems with the gun. I'm just saying, that based on my experience, the potential is there. And I'm just a bit surprised at Kahr's rather casual response. I didn't come away form the conversation with the feeling that I had been educated in any way. I came away with the feeling that I had been blown off.

Again, it truly may not be a problem. I don't know enough to say one way or the other. I'm just reacting based on my experience with numerous other firearms. Does it concern me enough to make me shelve the gun? Absolutely not. I will still use it. I will still carry it. But what I will also do is periodically disassemble and clean the slide to prevent buildup over an extended time. Just as a precaution.

[CJB]

I am an old fogey who has been shooting and working with guns of every type since about the time I learned to walk. ......this is my first experience with Kahr firearms

Having said that, I can say with absolute certainty that this is NOT normal behavior for a semi-automatic pistol.

I paid particular attention to the dimple made by the firing pin. In every case, there is a gouge on one side of the dimple

Again, Kahr contends this is normal. It is not. My 1911 does not do it.

Lets get you up to speed.

1. Kahr's are not 1911's.
2. Since you're able to use a computer, I'll assume you can read. Read the manual that came with your pistol, or available online (free) at Kahr's website. In the manual you'll see that the smeared primer is normal. Dented cases are normal.
3. The smearing varies with loads, primer metal, primer hardness, etc, but you'll get some small buildup.
4. There is adequate clearance in the pistol for the bits to be ejected during cycling.
5. Do not lube the striker channel with heavy lubricants which will prevent the bits from being cleared by the action of the pistol.

6. Welcome!

[OldLincoln]

No limb hacking here, Paladin. Several of us have discovered the shavings in the striker channel but not known what they were. I found them the first time I torn down the top end which was after 500 or so rounds. It hadn't caused a problem but didn't look right. I have shot a lot since and once in a while tear it down when overly bored and it has been squeaky clean. Others have the same story so we figured it must be from manufacturing and don't give it a thought.

[jocko]

Kahr shows in their manual what they call primer indent, it is primer swipe and indeed some of that primer is being swiped by the firing pin upon ejection. They say it is normal.

you stated u cleaned yours after the first range trip. did you do any cleaning of that striker channel befrore that first trip or was that the first time. If so I am going out on a limb also to say that some of what you are seeing is not all primer swipe but residual crapola left in the gun when it left khar.

What your talking about has given zero issues and that little clean out hole in the bottom of that channel will keep that area perfectly clean once it is cleaned like you did yours. It can't build up in that area if it is cleaned and I do not mean every time either. The way that striker itself is designed, there is allowance for possable crapola to be in that area and the gun to still function.

We have read here of some having light strikes from the git go from never really cleaning that striker channel at all, but once that area was throughly cleaned be it complete slide take down or using that clean out hole (which will do the same thing), we have never seen what your describing happening.

I can 100% assure you if u use that clean out hole on the bottom of the slide and insert your spray cleaner nozzle in that hole fluids will come out front and back and then I even jpull back on the striker and spray from the breech face and fluids will realy come out of that clean out hole. That area is now perfectly clean.

My glock has the same clean out hole up by the breech, it is there for a reason. You are having no issues and you willhave no issues in that area. Enjoy your kahr, it willnot let you down....

[Paladin]

CJB, thanks for the sarcasm, very helpful.

"Kahr's are not 1911's."

SHAZAM!!! I didn't know that. Wow. They look so similar.

"Since you're able to use a computer, I'll assume you can read."

Uh, lets see..."Since I attended the Evelin Woodhed sped reddin corse my redding compresion has improvved wondurfooly"

What the manual says is that smeared primers are normal....in Kahrs. It is NOT normal for semi automatic pistols in general. And I'm not talking about just 1911's. Assuming YOU can read, revisit my post and you'll see I also mentioned my XD which is a striker fired gun very similar to the Kahr. Likewise with my Glock. The Glock's unique firing pin does make an odd dimple in the primer, but it doesn't gouge it. And it does NOT collect metal shavings in the striker channel.

Again, I am NOT saying this is a problem for the Kahr. I'm saying, based on my experience, this is not normal.

To the others who have offered thoughtful and intelligent reponses, thank you.

[jocko]

if u don't believe kahr and don't want to "trust" what we the owners and shooters of kahrs are telling you then probably any bantering back and forth now will not be fruitful.

Every first time owner who has taken down that slide like you did has found "crapola" in there like you described. You would not have seen this muchy crapola if you had used that clean out hole to clean as it would have come out of 3 different areas and would have basically got lost in the amount of fluid coming out with it BUT IT WOULD HAVE cleaned it perfectly. You can run your own test yourself now that you have cleaned it spiffy clean, shoot 200+ rounds and tear it down and I can assure you what stuff comes out will be so littlle that you will feel a complete tear down was never necessary. I certainly am not hear toargue with u or anyone about this. yuou can either accdept what kahr sates and maybe even more from use shooters as to what is,,, IS or live in fear over nothing.

I flunked out of the Evelin Woodned school by the way, they say it was record time evenj...

[Paladin]

I never said I don't value or trust the opinions of others here. That's why I submitted the post in the first place. What I didn't ask for was insults and sarcasm.

But, as you say, this "banter" is obviously not fruitful, so I'll sign off and let it go at that.

[tconroy]

The first time I cleaned out mine it had the shaving but since about 500+ rounds I dont see it as much. Just shoot the damn thing like ya stole it and STOP WORRYING ABOUT IT!!!! The CW 9 is bullet proof. It like the Eveready bunny, It just keeps going and going..........

[rkirk]

Cw9

I have never done a complete disassemble and clean, but I discovered a post about the clean out hole under the slide. I use a squirt of aerosol break Free to clean the firing pin channel. It really seems to work, no gunk or problems in nearly a thousand rounds. My Kahr CW9 runs like a top.

Someday I may do a total breakdown just to see for myself. It is a very through post, thanks from a happy CW9 owner and CW9 carrier.

-- Richard

[gb6491]

...What the manual says is that smeared primers are normal....in Kahrs. It is NOT normal for semi automatic pistols in general. And I'm not talking about just 1911's. Assuming YOU can read, revisit my post and you'll see I also mentioned my XD which is a striker fired gun very similar to the Kahr. Likewise with my Glock. The Glock's unique firing pin does make an odd dimple in the primer, but it doesn't gouge it. And it does NOT collect metal shavings in the striker channel.

Again, I am NOT saying this is a problem for the Kahr. I'm saying, based on my experience, this is not normal.

To the others who have offered thoughtful and intelligent reponses, thank you.

Paladin,
I would argue that "primer swipe" is normal from most striker fired guns. First, consider that once released the striker remains forward of the breach face and in contact with the primer until the slide cycles far enough to reset it. Several movements occur while this contact is being maintained that can cause the primer swipe we see from striker fired guns. One is the downward motion of the barrel as it unlocks. The other occurs when the case hits the ejector. I personally believe the "swipe" occurs as the barrel unlocks. I've seen primer swipe on every striker fired gun I've owned (Kahr CW45, CW9, Glock 27, Glock 30, and XD9SC). While not as prevalent on hammer fired guns, I've seen it on guns with dirty firing pin tunnels/damaged rebound springs and on guns with non rebound spring firing pins (SKS comes to mind).
Regards,
Greg

[Bawanna]

We need to go a whole lot easier on the new folks boys and girls. We can certainly do without the sarcasm and put downs.
We get alot of repeat scenarios and malfunctions and misunderstandings and typical new to kahr type stuff and we occasionally get short with new folks.

Remember it's a new ball game for them, not necessarily in this case for Paladin, I'm speaking in general terms.

We're still enjoying new members all the time. That's good for them and it's good for us. When you share information it keeps in in your memory banks better.

In summary lets all be nice. Frankly CJB you were blatantly a little hard. Ease up some please.

[mr surveyor]

although "primer swipe" is normal in many striker fired semi-auto's, "gouging" is NOT normal. My guess is that Paladin just may have an out of spec striker. I think we can all agree of that being possible.

I would be on the phone either asking for a return shipping label, or a new striker assembly to install myself.

I think something just may be out of spec.


surv

[CJB]

CJB, thanks for the sarcasm, very helpful.

Yer welcome!

I apologize too. Ya came in with some strong opinion about whats right and not right, but didn't even read the manual (or chose to ignore it). Still, I was harshly sarcastic, overly rude, condescending, and you didn't realize it at the time, but I was farting out "R T F M"* in Morse Code. To all that - please accept my humble apology

Course what I did tell ya - after the lambaste - was all God's honest truth.

Welcome aboard once again!


*Read The Fantastic Manual

[MW surveyor]

Paladin

I've read and replied to all of your posts to date and would like to let you know, they've always been good ones that provoke some thought.

As others have said, some striker fired guns do swipe or smear the primers. I know for a fact that if you go to the KelTec forums, you'll find a lot of posts regarding this fact. In addition, if you do a search on just about all of the other forums, you'll see that it is just not limited to Kahr pistols. It does happen with some frequency or at least enough to get commented upon.

Just to let you know, my CW9 has over 1600 rounds through it. It does get a good cleaning after each range session with brake cleaner run through the cleanout hole in the slide every time. Recently I replaced my striker spring with a lighter one from Wolff. Upon removing the spring/striker assembly, no debris was found.

Keep up the good posts.

[Paladin]

Thanks to all for all the responses. And to CJB, water under the bridge.