P380 Range Report - 1st after receiving new frame

[Kenjs2]

Last problem in a series of problems: Striker fails to reset
The slide was replaced on a previous return

Actions taken: Replace frame and updated striker block and extractor

Outcome:
50 rounds consisting of WWB, American Eagle, Lawman, Federal Champion
Two slide locks
One failure of striker to reset leading to casing jamming on striker that is protruding from breech plate (approx 1/32" - 3/64") on manual loading of first round only, all other rounds striker reset upon automatic cycling.

Questions:
What resets the striker?
Is it just recoil?

If the trigger is pulled and then the slide locked back to insert a mag the striker will always be protruding from the breech plate. If the trigger is not pulled the striker stays reset and does not stick out the breech plate. Easy fix would be to never pull the trigger when there is not a round in the chamber but that just doesn't sound right. What am I dealing with here?

I am satisfied with my first trip out. I am really running this thing very wet. This may be bad thinking but in a SD situation I only need to be concerned with getting 13 rounds through it.(?)

Thanks,

[rogerthedodger]

I had the same problem as you. My fix was to put a drop of oil on each side of the cocking cam, part #15. It is spring loaded, but if slow to retract the striker at load time, the striker is still out when the first round is loaded. Now when I clean my P380, I always spray cleaner into the cocking cam area, and lube litely with oil. No more probs like you describe. And BTW, I got this idea from another kahrtalk member.
Roger

[OldLincoln]

The little silver tab sticking up on the rear right side (with the slide removed) is the striker trigger disconnect. You might look it over and gently move it back and forth to see if it's sticky. What Roger said is good and may work some oil down to that mechanism also.

When you say the first round is "manual loaded" are you saying using the slide release?

The striker is an inertia mechanism where the spring stops and the striker keeps moving. It doesn't have a "rebound spring" so may stick out until the slide is fully back. Once retracted, the striker is blocked from moving forward by that little silver flat piece (sear) next to the striker in the slide. One of the two cams pushes it down when firing. If you push it down when cleaning you can slide the striker pin outside the breach. It's a simple check for ease of movement.

[rogerthedodger]

Kenjs2 is right. If you pull the trigger with no round loaded, then latch slide open, you will see the firing pin protruding. This is normal. What will happen, is when you load a mag, trip the slide latch, as the slide closes, the firing pin retracts. What was happening on mine, The cocking cam was slow to retract firing pin(binding cocking cam?), and by cleaning and lubing, it started to work ok. Again, not my idea, but another member here had similar probs and fixed the same way.
Normally, you probably wont pull trigger with no round, then load a mag, but, I was having probs with last round not latching slide open, so I pulled the trigger again to make sure it was unloaded, then latched slide open, put in mag, trip slide latch and BAM bullet jammed on firing pin.
Hindsight, if slide not locking open, rack slide several times to clear any rounds, DO NOT pull trigger, then load mag and release slide. Also, I am hoping I have fixed my slide not locking open on last round. All of this on my NEW frame from Kahr. Good luck to you Kenjs2.
Roger

[Kenjs2]

The little silver tab sticking up on the rear right side (with the slide removed) is the striker trigger disconnect. You might look it over and gently move it back and forth to see if it's sticky. What Roger said is good and may work some oil down to that mechanism also.

When you say the first round is "manual loaded" are you saying using the slide release?

The striker is an inertia mechanism where the spring stops and the striker keeps moving. It doesn't have a "rebound spring" so may stick out until the slide is fully back. Once retracted, the striker is blocked from moving forward by that little silver flat piece (sear) next to the striker in the slide. One of the two cams pushes it down when firing. If you push it down when cleaning you can slide the striker pin outside the breach. It's a simple check for ease of movement.

Yes, using the slide lock. I think the problem may be in the "inertia" area. (I think inertia is a better word to use here than recoil that I used) When fired the slide has the full inertia to perform all the necessary actions to get the next round chambered, so no problem with striker moving back into the semi cocked position ("partial tension") but when you dry fire the weapon and then hand rack and lock the slide open there is no inertia available and the striker stays in front of the striker block thus we find the striker protruding out of the breech plate by approximately 1/32" - 3/64". Yes, the striker retracts before the slide is fully closed (as memory serves me I think mine retracted at about 3/8" from full closure ("battery"). Unfortunately, by this time, the next round has already started into the chamber so it is parallel to the barrel and thus centered in front of the striker. Before the round gets to this position there is plenty of time for the edge of the cartridge to got hung up on the extended striker causing the jam. Please note, again if memory serves me, that I think this has also happened when I have gotten a premature slide lock and had to use the slide lock lever to close the slide. (I'm a little gray here but I think I remember that happening) I'll attach two pictures to show what i mean.

Looking at my MK9, I know it's a larger pistol, there seems to be more space between the breechplate surface and the end of the cartridge when it passes the striker.

If it sounds like I don't know what I'm talking about it's because I don't!
I hope you all can help...

[Kenjs2]

Kenjs2 is right. If you pull the trigger with no round loaded, then latch slide open, you will see the firing pin protruding. This is normal. What will happen, is when you load a mag, trip the slide latch, as the slide closes, the firing pin retracts. What was happening on mine, The cocking cam was slow to retract firing pin(binding cocking cam?), and by cleaning and lubing, it started to work ok. Again, not my idea, but another member here had similar probs and fixed the same way.

Take a look at my reply to OldLincoln and let me know what you think.

Normally, you probably wont pull trigger with no round, then load a mag, but, I was having probs with last round not latching slide open, so I pulled the trigger again to make sure it was unloaded, then latched slide open, put in mag, trip slide latch and BAM bullet jammed on firing pin.
Hindsight, if slide not locking open, rack slide several times to clear any rounds, DO NOT pull trigger, then load mag and release slide. Also, I am hoping I have fixed my slide not locking open on last round. All of this on my NEW frame from Kahr. Good luck to you Kenjs2.
Roger

I'm thinking of two possibilities here for not moving striker back:
1. timing of the cocker cam
2. lack of adequate inertia
Can you see any others?

How did you solve your slide not locking back on last round?

I've had two premature slide locks first time out but I'm thinking they should be easier to solve than these jams. (?)

Thanks,
Ken

[rogerthedodger]

Hey Ken, I am no gun guru, but, as I said in earlier posts, the cocking cam apparently restores the firing pin when slide moves forward. Any bind, and the pin is late in its return to cocked position, causing round to hang up on it. Mine failed every time on first round loaded after trigger pull on empty gun. After cleaning and lubing cocking cam, failure did not return.
The prob with not locking open after last round has to do with the slide lock lever spring tension when the mag is empty. The mag spring tension has to be overcome by the slide lock lever spring. With the slide off, place the slide lock lever in the frame, and place an empty mag in the frame. You will be able to see the mag follower push the lever up. If the lever spring tension is stronger than the mag spring tension, locking of the slide will not take place. Adjust tension of the latch spring by bending accordingly. If you are having slide premature lock, and you know its not your hand touching the latch, adjust the latch tnsion to be stronger, not weaker, as in my case.
Roger

[Kenjs2]

2nd trip to the range

I put 44 rounds of Lawman through my P380 last Saturday and it ran perfect.
I have had times in the past where I could feel a little thump or catch when the slide was in the process of chambering the next round, kind of like it wanted to jam but at the last minute the round slipped up and chambered. I had nothing even close to that this time out. This may have been the most perfect outing I have had with my P380 !

1. Keep it clean
2. Keep it oiled and oil it some more.
3. Don't pull triger on empty chamber without racking (resetting) slide.
*Find out how the striker is designed by Kahr to reset.
4. "White knuckle grip" it
5. ???

*Even though I had no problems this time I'm still trying to find an answer to the correct resetting of the striker...

Yes, the striker retracts before the slide is fully closed (as memory serves me I think mine retracted at about 3/8" from full closure ("battery"). Unfortunately, by this time, the next round has already started into the chamber so it is parallel to the barrel and thus centered in front of the striker. Before the round gets to this position there is plenty of time for the edge of the cartridge to got hung up on the extended striker causing the jam.

If this is really what I've observed then there must be something else involved. Like what OldLincoln suggested.

The striker is an inertia mechanism where the spring stops and the striker keeps moving.

Any futher observations about this?

[Kenjs2]

3rd trip to the range

I put 44 rounds of American Eagle through my P380 last Thursday and I had one FTC (round #34). The slide cycled completely but all I got was a click on an empty chamber. I then manually racked the slide and got a "striker jam" (see previous pictures). After I cleared this failure I ran the last ten rounds with no problems.

What caused the slide not to pickup the next round?

Could it be a limp wrist?
I could have gotten over confident and loosened up on my grip because it has been running so good since I got my new frame.

Could it be in the magazine?

I still think this striker jam is a potential problem. My previous fix for this was not to pull the trigger on an empty chamber without re-racking to reset the striker but obviously this doesn't work when a quick-clear is needed on a range drill. I'm still looking for a complete understanding of this part of the cycle and a fix for this problem. Any suggestions?

My 380 is running so much better than before, I hope this was just a limp wrist problem...

[JayinAZ]

I've found it's pretty easy to bump the mag release with your thumb if you aren't careful where you put it. These things are tiny!

[rogerthedodger]

Kenjs2, as I stated before, I had the same prob with striker. I think you should, with slide removed, use a spray cleaner, spray into the cocking cam area, with frame tipped to the rear, until cleaner comes out. Then, use air pressure to blow dry inside of cam, then lube it with oil. The cam is spring loaded, so it will pivot. If the spring is broken, or there is a bind, the striker will be slow to retract. I was able to get a failure every time, by racking the slide with empty gun, pull trigger, open slide, insert mag with 1 bullet, release slide with slide release, and BAM bullet hung up on striker. After doing above clean and lube, problem went away.
My fix for failure to latch open on last round is extra power mag spring, such as wolfsprings keltec +10%. I put my 7 round mag spring in my 6 round mag as a test, went to the range, and had NO failures to lock open. The extra spring helps slide release latch on last round.
Roger

[Kenjs2]

Roger, I've adopted you frame cleaning and oiling methods after you first shared them with me and I think you are right on with caring for the frame and its components. I clean and oil both sides of the cocking cam and both ends of the trigger bar and I work the trigger many times to make sure everything moves free and easy. I use NAPA's spray contact cleaner and blow it all out before I oil it. I don't remember the kind of oil I use (I'll look tonight when I get home) but I got it at the local gun show. It comes in a pen with a long needle nose. It looks like it's a light oil.

You have completely eliminated this problem on yours? Even after using your methods I still get this problem if I pull the trigger on an empty chamber and not rack the slide.

I don't think cleaning/oiling is the problem this time.

Ken

[rogerthedodger]

You've got me to thinking, maybe I am not pulling the trigger before loading a mag. I know I could get it to fail every time before I cleaned and lubed the cam. I will have to try it again. Maybe a moot point, like u say, just rack slide twice after trigger pull, or dont pull trigger before loading mag. Anyway, glad u are keeping it clean. I wonder what Kahr has to say?

[kahrlover123]

I'm not sure what's going on with the P380. It gives Kahr some bad name. TCP and LCP are way more reliable than P380. Of all the people I know that own a TCP or LCP, they never had a FTF, FTE, or FTRB with their pistols in the range. Why P380?

To be honest, if your P380 still gives problem, sell it and get a PM9.
If you think PM9 is too big to carry, then get a LCP or TCP.
When times comes, you do not have a chance to "fix the problem" or "wonder why it does not go bang" but you're pretty much dead meat.

[JFootin]

I'm not sure what's going on with the P380. It gives Kahr some bad name. TCP and LCP are way more reliable than P380. Of all the people I know that own a TCP or LCP, they never had a FTF, FTE, or FTRB with their pistols in the range. Why P380?

To be honest, if your P380 still gives problem, sell it and get a PM9.
If you think PM9 is too big to carry, then get a LCP or TCP.
When times comes, you do not have a chance to "fix the problem" or "wonder why it does not go bang" but you're pretty much dead meat.

That is why I am adding a S&W Model 638 Bodyguard Revolver to my arsenal. The classic Chief's Special. 5 shots that go bang every time. Now, I have a CM9 that is performing correctly. But I have crippled hands and racking that slide to clear a jam would be very clumsy and time consuming for me. I am going to get a trigger job done on the Smith and have it ready for action.