why are Kahrs so expensive?

[chrish]

thats what worries me. ive been bitten by the Kahr bug but dont want to get bitten by Kahr crap.

the Glock 36 is a fine pistol but is no smaller than a Glock 19. id like a really compact .45acp of quality. the P45 is no smaller than the G36 for the most part. the PM45 seemed to fit the bill......but now im having second thoughts about trading my Delta Elite for a PM45 and cash......

It's tough. I hate to hear folks unhappy w/ a purchase, but you gotta make a call at some point...keep at it our dump it for something else. Your time is valuable and I personally wouldn't not have the patience to have something going back to the factory time and time again. Once or even twice is one thing, but beyond that I've be moving on too. Can't blame you. I too expect things to be perfect out of the box. My Kahrs have been, other than a loose rear sight and my PM9 (no longer have it) initially not dropping mags free when I thought they should...until I came here. I think by and large, Kahrs are good guns. Keep in mind, if there are even 100 P/PM 45 owners here (which I doubt), there are thousands out there. You always see/hear the complaints, but less frequently do you hear 'my guns is perfect'.

Don't know your specific issues, and again, I'm no expert particularly w/ a Kahr 45. There are PLENTY of folks w/ no issues, and I'm only coming at this from what I've seen on this forum...just seems to be more 45 gripes and issues that you see w/ the other calibers.

All in all, I think the cost of a Kahr is a fair price, compared to other stuff out there, nobody does single stack better. Copying is another form of flattery, and there is a reason everybody (but Glock, haha) is jumping on the single stack bandwagon, and it's because of ONE COMPANY imo, Kahr.

[Bawanna]

All perception. If I had to guess I'd say there are more issues with 40's. I've had no issues at all with my PM45. Had a peening issue with my K40 taken care of quickly and efficiently by Kahr years ago.

The early 380's had issues galore.

I wouldn't call any issue with 45's pandemic with Kahrs and I'd order any of them without pause if I was in the market.

Some will accuse me of drinking the kool aid but I prefer Scotch and really don't ride for any brand. I like most all real brands, with a few I wouldn't pick up off a table if they were free. Those that start with a K come to mind.

[ScottieG59]

Price figures in the perception of quality. Supposedly, people think lower prices equals lower quality. There is a break even analysis that helps determine optimal pricing and production.

[chovyman]

First there is a near new pm45 on the sales board for $540 I just bought my 2nd pm45 for $550.
I've had 4 kahrs a pm 380 a cw45 and two pm45's all have functioned great after 200 rounds break in. Since break in no malfunctions! Many new guns need break in including Glocks

Made in America is a lot of the cost but still when looking for a small powerhouse the PM45 is hard to beat. . .? Mat dao back up

Michael

[wagon]

At $350 range, they are pretty damn cheap... CM and CW are good deals.

[O'Dell]

I don't think the PM45, or any Kahr .45 is good guage for Kahr quality. The sweet spot is the 9mm for them. Can't speak to .40, but there don't seem to be many problems w/ them either. Seems to be the .45 models, mostly the PM and the P380 that cause more grief that it's probably worth.

Not sure why that is. I'm not a avid gunsmith and couldn't speak to why they can be so perfect in 9 and 40 and have so much trouble (seemingly so from this forum) with .45.

I'm having a bit of a problem with that and I've read nearly every post on KahrTalk for the last three years. On a personal level, I've had two CW45's and a PM45 with nary a problem, except the PM45 managed to get itself stolen. I just wish they would make an MK45 or at least hurry up the release of the CM45.

[kerby9mm]

In the case of my mk9 it went back to Kahr 4 times. Cocking Cam out of spec when they put in a trigger bar. Problem not fixed back again for new cocking cam which when they put in they broke the trigger pivot pin Back again new pin. Striker assembly broke. Back again fixed. The price of the gun maybe covered shipping costs. Every gun maker has to consider warranty expenses.

[wyntrout]

The company shipping rates are less than half of what we would have to pay. When they gave me their FedEx account number and let me order pickup, I kind of screwed up and set up a FedEx account with Kahr's number and only used it when authorized returns. That worked as long as I changed the to/from properly. I did tell the head of customer service about that. That did allow me to see their cost/rate which was about $28 or so for the next to highest overnight rate. It would really be nice if they would let you pay their rate... they email a shipping label and charge you what they pay.

I know that they didn't make any money on my PM45 "Franken-Boomer". After FOUR returns, if there's an original part, it might be the slide lock. They did send me two of those and I returned them because the replacements weren't BLACK... like my pistol.

It does work pretty well now and I can hold it as loose as I want without FTFs from limp wristing. That part I really like.

Wynn

[CJB]

I don't think the PM45, or any Kahr .45 is good guage for Kahr quality.

I've got two of those ...

One had a bad frame - not a 45 cal related issue - but even so, it kept shooting. Kahr quickly replaced the frame.

The other just shoots, and shoots, and shoots, right from the get go.

Both shoot reliably, when fed reliable ammo. If you get range reloads, or some other remanufactured stuff... you'll have a few stoppages. I dont shoot that ammo for its reliability, I shoot it for the trigger practice. I'm also good for a box or two of WWB or UMC ammo, which feeds like butter thru both the PM45's.

[CJB]

Wyntrout...

The shipping rate thing - big shippers get "hundredweight" service, which is hundreds of packages shipped daily. The place I work for gets about 60 percent off the UPS service counter rate, and I ship thru them whenever I can (no guns tho). UPS STORE's charge even more then the customer counter. And, daily pickup customers get an in between rate (lower than customer counter). So there's four rate levels, and there may be more, dunno. And thats just UPS. I'm sure FedEx and the others do the same.

I can ship a guitar, big, heavy, insured for $2000 from Florida to Virginia, for about $18 going thru my employer. That ain't bad!

[Longitude Zero]

or at least hurry up the release of the CM45.

I second the motion.

[Planedude]

I have often wondered why SIGs are so pricey. The market that Kahr sells in is a special niche and their focus there keeps the price up. Low production rates and high specialization will always drive the costs up. I build jet fighters that can cost as much as a more commmon 737 airliner, so I kind of understand that sort of market reailty.
Glocks are very common and play to the widest part of the market. Nothing wrong there, but your price has to reflect your wide entry into the market.
That said, why is it that so many folks will plunk down so much for a nearly as widely marketed SIG SAUER product?
I guess it's like has been said already, they charge what they charge cause they can... I'll pay that for a Kahr. I don't own any SIGs, but my Son does (shrug).

[7shot]

Kahrs are high quality instruments and can be finicky until properly broken in.

Gee, where have I heard that before. This is what they said about Kimber guns. I had so much trouble with my last two that I gave up on them. Now I have a Kaur and am hearing the same thing again. Before I purchased my K9 I never heard of such issues, lucky me I haven't had any issues with mine.

My feelings on the $$ issue is that the steel series guns I can see the price tag. But does polymer really cost the same as steel to Kaur? The guts are the same between steel and polymer, so I don't believe the cost to Kaur can be the same to justify the price tag their asking. I don't know maybe it is a production volume issue. Just seems to me polymer guns should be cheaper to buy.

[JFootin]

My feelings on the $$ issue is that the steel series guns I can see the price tag. But does polymer really cost the same as steel to Kaur? The guts are the same between steel and polymer, so I don't believe the cost to Kaur can be the same to justify the price tag their asking. I don't know maybe it is a production volume issue. Just seems to me polymer guns should be cheaper to buy.

That's why we now have the highly popular CW and CM guns. Kahr wanted to increase their sales and market share, and the market dictated where the prices needed to be to do that. I only wish they would dovetail the front sight. But they had to make the original P and PM guns still seem worth it for those who can easily afford them and want the features that can only be had on those models. Ingenious, really. If they hadn't got that right, the more expensive models' sales might have dropped to near zero. But I think they struck a perfect balance.

BTW, I just heard that the XS Big Dot sights are now available for the CW/CM series guns.

[chrish]

I'm having a bit of a problem with that and I've read nearly every post on KahrTalk for the last three years. On a personal level, I've had two CW45's and a PM45 with nary a problem, except the PM45 managed to get itself stolen. I just wish they would make an MK45 or at least hurry up the release of the CM45.

I've got two of those ...

One had a bad frame - not a 45 cal related issue - but even so, it kept shooting. Kahr quickly replaced the frame.

The other just shoots, and shoots, and shoots, right from the get go.

Both shoot reliably, when fed reliable ammo. If you get range reloads, or some other remanufactured stuff... you'll have a few stoppages. I dont shoot that ammo for its reliability, I shoot it for the trigger practice. I'm also good for a box or two of WWB or UMC ammo, which feeds like butter thru both the PM45's.

Fair enough guys. Not trying to be argumentative, just my take on it. I recently started getting a bug for a Kahr .45 and I too have read just about every post in the last 12 months, but not the last 2-3 years, So your base of info might be larger (and better) than mine.

But in just the last 12 months of information here, there were enough issues reported, some buried in other threads, that it made me give second thought and ultimately decide (for the price) not right now. But I also decided I wasnt' going to spend to stock up on .45 ammo, so why bother w/ a .45 right now anyway.

Again, I think I stated before, couple of people w/ issues, couple of people with perfect runs, fine...but that's just empirical/anecdotal and neither are statisically significant. You only see the gripes and not the positive feedback/comments in the same numbers. I chose to avoid a Kahr .45 because of the uncertainty (in my mind, maybe unfounded) and what I felt were enough gripes to be valid and the desire to not be dealing with Kahr back-n-forth at this point in time.