why are Kahrs so expensive?

[O'Dell]

I have often wondered why SIGs are so pricey. The market that Kahr sells in is a special niche and their focus there keeps the price up. Low production rates and high specialization will always drive the costs up. I build jet fighters that can cost as much as a more commmon 737 airliner, so I kind of understand that sort of market reailty.
Glocks are very common and play to the widest part of the market. Nothing wrong there, but your price has to reflect your wide entry into the market.
That said, why is it that so many folks will plunk down so much for a nearly as widely marketed SIG SAUER product?
I guess it's like has been said already, they charge what they charge cause they can... I'll pay that for a Kahr. I don't own any SIGs, but my Son does (shrug).

SIG's are more expensive partly because most of their pistols are all metal. Polymer frames are cheaper to manufacture. I have three SIG's, all with aluminum frames. That doesn't explain though why my polymer framed HK's are so expensive. Maybe the same reason that Mercedes, BMW's, and Audi's are.

[JFootin]

SIG's are more expensive partly because most of their pistols are all metal. Polymer frames are cheaper to manufacture. I have three SIG's, all with aluminum frames. That doesn't explain though why my polymer framed HK's are so expensive. Maybe the same reason that Mercedes, BMW's, and Audi's are.

You nailed it. Barth has been whetting my appetite for an HK!

[QuercusMax]

Glocks are made in Austria to, so more than likely their labor market is far less than ours.

Labor cost in western Europe is every bit as high, or higher, than in the USA, so that is not a factor.

Glocks are the Toyota of guns - made in large quantities, to reasonably high quality standards, designed to appeal to large masses of people. Other manufacturers, Sig Sauer, HK, and Kahr among them, position themselves (or at least some of their products) to be more up-market, and price accordingly.

There are a lot of interesting marketing studies that show that for certain products, increasing the price actually increases their desirability - without any regard for actual manufacturing cost.

[CJB]

I reiterate, and to put more clearly...

What is costs to make something has nothing to do with what the sales price will be.

Marketing sets the price. Manufacturing is there to make the item, to the spec of marketing, without sacrificing the feature set, as inexpensively as possible, thus maximizing profits.

So the old "it costs more to manufacture" is totally hogwash, bunk, BS. Total BS. Its there to appease the unwitting masses. Take any course in manufacturing economics, and you'll quickly see the true picture.

Price to the consumer is based on what the market (the consumers) will support with their dollars. The rest is worked backwards into the shop floor.... They (marketing) want what? Holy crap can we acutally make that? Yah we can, but it will mean we have to gear up to make umpty trillion of them. Thats ok, marketing says they can sell that many, and then some... ok lets do it. And they continually, during production life, find ways of making it for less and less money.

This is not new economics... jeeze Henry Ford had a clear picture of how this works, and before him, others.

The man in charge of it all, has a title. He is called the "product manager". He correlates the marketing input with manufacturing. He is the point man, the man who makes the profit dollars. If you can stand the heat, and have a good product and market, being a product manager is a very lucrative profession.

[JERRY]

im no longer in a financial position to buy any gun i want like before when i bought all steel Kahrs......in fact my only Kahr now is a used PM9.

if i sell a high end gun i can buy a Kahr or if i can trade for a used one.....but i dont want an econo kahr, i havent drank that much kool-aid yet....LOL.

[chrish]

The econo Kahr's are not 'econo'. They are just as good, they just don't spend as much time being prettied up and that's even subjective if you ask me. The actual differences that one MIGHT consider a quality downgrade are questionably effective anyway (polygonal barrel, take-down pin). Beyond those two iffy-benefit things, they are 100% cosmetic differences.

[jocko]

love my

im no longer in a financial position to buy any gun i want like before when i bought all steel Kahrs......in fact my only Kahr now is a used PM9.

if i sell a high end gun i can buy a Kahr or if i can trade for a used one.....but i dont want an econo kahr, i havent drank that much kool-aid yet....LOL.

PM9, call the cm9 what ever u want, it will fire along side of my cm9 just as long. Had kahr made the cm9 back when I bought my PM9, I would have bought it, no doubt in my mind and my signature line would still be saying over 32K rounds.. No doubt we have had less bugs in the cm9 from intorduction than the PM9, that is for sure, but I credit the success of the cm9 due to the teething aspects of the PM9. Once kahr got the PM9 right, just made sense to make a lower priced model less engraving, , extra butt ugly magazine, different sight set up, standard rifling. Nothing there that should really upset quality.

[LorenzoB]

....What is costs to make something has nothing to do with what the sales price will be.....

I am a manufacturer and I know that in a very competitive market, this is not always the case. If the price the market will bear is low because of competitors' prices, then manufacturing plays a big roll in setting the price because of set minimum profit margins. A $20 difference in manufacturing costs could translate to $80 after middle markups.

You are right, marketing ultimately sets the price, especially when there is room for margins, but manufacturing plays a bigger roll when that room for margins is small.

Kahr does not benefit as much from economies of scale like some of the larger manufacturers. I think they could charge more in the past when they were the only ones filling the niche, but now competition is heating up and they addressed that with selling less expensive models, but I am sure margins are getting slimmer as more people are expecting to pay less for a good gun.

[fitpro]

I own two Kahr pistols, the CW9 and the CM9. I consider both to be great values. I know they are part of the Kahr "budget" line but for the quality of each pistol I would expect to pay 50% more.

I also own two Glock 19s. They are great weapons. I believe they are priced closer to their actual value, which is fair. I don't own any "safe queens" but looking at the price of some 1911s at +/- $3,000 is when I would start questioning why something has such a high price tag. As long as my weapon is accurate and goes bang every time, I'm happy. Kahr and Glock both exceed that standard.

[jocko]

don't hold ur breath if u think kahr is gonna drop their prices. dealer margins might get less but that has nadda to do with what kahr charges distributors.. Juyst sayinb

[JFootin]

The econo Kahr's are not 'econo'. They are just as good, they just don't spend as much time being prettied up and that's even subjective if you ask me. The actual differences that one MIGHT consider a quality downgrade are questionably effective anyway (polygonal barrel, take-down pin). Beyond those two iffy-benefit things, they are 100% cosmetic differences.

The pinned plastic front sight is not just cosmetic. It is the one difference that comes closest to the definition of "cheap", and I wish Kahr would put dovetailed metal front sights on them. Mine popped off my CM9 and got lost while I was shooting to qualify for my CC permit. I bought a Dawson Precision fiber optic front sight to replace it.

[jocko]

glocks have pinned front sights. If they are installed correctly, they are OK. Dovetail has its drawbacks to.

[chrish]

The pinned plastic front sight is not just cosmetic.

Point taken, forgot about the sights.

glocks have pinned front sights. If they are installed correctly, they are OK. Dovetail has its drawbacks to.

Well there you go. If Glock does it, it must be the right thing to do.

Sorry, that was just asking for that response

[jocko]

naw thats OK, I should not have used glocks but they are one who have sold literally millions with pinned sights and they seem to be accepted (by most). they certainly are more economic and funtional than the cost of dovetails which was kahrs goal to keep the cost down. Now with the new xs big dots availalbe for the cm and cw, an owner himself can install with ease these sights, where as those dovetails can be real bastards to get out. I am anxious to see the cm or cw with the xs sights. That to me kinda maybe, sorta, could be, chances are, might level the playing field even more for these little cheap ass cm and cw kahrs.. Jsut sayin

[chrish]

I hope you know I was kidding, nothing more. The quippy remark just 'came to me'. All in fun. Some of my best friends are Glocks, er, Glock owners.