UPDATE & VERDICT - Should I sell my PM9?

[krazman]

DISCLAIMER: I am looking for some genuine help here. This is not a Kahr bashing thread. This is not a "for sale" thread. If you don't have something positive to add, please pass on by. I'm not looking to get flamed here.

QUESTION: My 4 month old PM9 was purchased new in September 2012. I ordered it with the factory installed Tru Dot night sights. I have installed a rubberized Talon grip. It is meticulously maintained following the instructional threads here. I can't shoot it for $hi+!! Out of 50 rounds fired yesterday, only 2 were on target. Literally...ON THE TARGET! I swore when I started shooting/owning handguns 5 months ago, I would not carry any handgun that I cannot hit the intended target with predictable accuracy. I don't want to ever hit some innocent bystander.

SO...should I sell it? Or maybe keep on practicing?

IMPORTANT DETAILS: As I said above, I have only been around handguns for 5 months. I passed my CC tests and received my Kansas CC 3 weeks after I took up shooting. This Kahr was my 4th purchase (went kind of buy-crazy the first month!) I have been trained / coached by three former LEOs all of whom are excellent shots (one was head of security for Air Force One when it is in Kansas for service). They tell me I am a good shot. With my g26 Gen4, I am pretty accurate at 10 yards (9s or better), 8s or better at 20 yards, 7s or better at 30 yards.

At 7 yards with my PM9 yesterday, I was 18 -24 inches down and left from bulls eye 48 of 50 shots. When my friends tried, they too were way down and left. This happens whether I am shooting very slowly or shooting as fast as I can pull the trigger. Of my 7 guns, this is the only one I can't shoot with accuracy. I refuse to carry it if I am shooting it that poorly. The other handguns are a Beretta 70s .380, Beretta 70s .22LR, 2 S&W Model 66 .357 magnum. I am accurate with all of them. The Kahr is the only DAO trigger.

So again, should I sell the PM9 and look for something small that is more similar to the Glock? Or just keep wasting ammo through the Kahr? Remember, ammo is scarce and expensive now!

Thank you for any help you may give. I apologize for the length of this post.

Stay Safe.
kraz

[Tinman507]

Kraz,

Most new Kahr owners shoot low left but 18-24 inches is a lot. Have you talked to Kahr about this? Have other good shooters had the same issue?
Sounds like more than slapping the trigger.

[Bawanna]

I suspect your not used to the trigger, but if your shooting friends can't hit with it either then either they aren't used to the trigger either or the sights are off.

This I would think would be very noticeable so probably not viable.

I'd try another hundred rounds, stay close 7 to 10 yards max, focus on the trigger, maybe throw in some dummy rounds to see what your doing, have a friend watch to see if your anticipating.

Your a brand new shooter so there's lots of if's that could be messing with you.

[krazman]

Thanks for the suggestions. Thought maybe the sights could be off, but didn't want to blame the gun. front sight has a large gap under it. Would that make a difference? I realize that I am the weakest link in the equation.

I don't think I am slapping the trigger. I make certain that my finger pulls perpendicular to the barrel. I am "surprised" when it goes bang so I don't think I am anticipating either. I would agree that the long pull DAO is very different from my other guns. Is it possible that I'm just not coordinated enough to get this DAO thing down?

Thanks!
kraz

[balok1701]

Most front sights shouldn't have any gap at all under the sight. It sounds like the sight may be improperly mounted too high which could easily account for the low hits on target. I would send a photo of the front sight to kahr and also post it here.

[KoolBreeze]

The easy answer is bad trigger control but 18-24" off target is a bit much for a trigger control issue. Before you give up on it though, I'd suggest some dummy rounds thrown in the magazine randomly with live rounds just to check your trigger control when it snaps. Try shooting it from a bench rest as well.

You might also take the gun to a range and let a few others shoot it and see what they can do with it. You could also take it to gunsmith and have him give it once over. There could be a burr or something in the barrel that is throwing it off.

[cjive134]

I think that perhaps the Kahr is not the ideal pistol to learn marksmanship skills. That being said, I once watched two newbs at the range shooting a glock 19 at a target 21 feet away, WITH a laser and they were missing the target by 12 to 24 inches each shot. You could actually watch the laser jerk downward to the left just a fraction of a second before they pulled the trigger.

Do you know anyone who has pistol experience? I think that with a shooting buddy with some amount of experience you will be shooting your Kahr very well in little time at all. If you have the money, I would get an autoloading 22lr pistol as well.

[krazman]

I think that perhaps the Kahr is not the ideal pistol to learn marksmanship skills. That being said, I once watched two newbs at the range shooting a glock 19 at a target 21 feet away, WITH a laser and they were missing the target by 12 to 24 inches each shot. You could actually watch the laser jerk downward to the left just a fraction of a second before they pulled the trigger.

Do you know anyone who has pistol experience? I think that with a shooting buddy with some amount of experience you will be shooting your Kahr very well in little time at all. If you have the money, I would get an autoloading 22lr pistol as well.

As I said in my original post, I do shoot with some very experienced former LEOs. They also have a hard time getting the shot on target with this particular PM9. Everyone is very low left.

With all of my other guns (including the semi-auto .22LR Beretta 70s) I am very accurate. I shoot rapidly at multiple targets or pop cans spread on the ground or on the backstop (like a Hickock45 video). I have no problem hitting the targets except with this Kahr.

The dealer who sold me the Kahr also has one. He tours the country in target shooting competitions. I am going to have him shoot my PM9 and I will shoot his to see if it is my gun or me that is the problem.

I neglected to say that my PM9 has over 500 rounds through it since purchase.

kraz

[krazman]

Most front sights shouldn't have any gap at all under the sight. It sounds like the sight may be improperly mounted too high which could easily account for the low hits on target. I would send a photo of the front sight to kahr and also post it here.

Here you go. I had to shoot it without flash so back-light would show under the front sight. The gap allows 4 3m sticky notes to fit under.

kraz

[Bawanna]

That seems like a lot! Is it grouping, that is the main thing? I don't recall ever seeing a gap like that. And it would put you low.

[JFootin]

I'd say that sight is a problem. The slide/barrel fit could be off, too. Only one additional thing I would recommend: get with 1 or more of your friends and shoot it from a rest. That should definitively show if it is the gun. If so, let Kahr know and ask them to send you a prepaid shipping label to send it back.

[PYROhafe]

I dont know if I've said it to you yet or not, but if I havent then welcome to the forum!

Im no expert on the pm, but that sight doesnt look right! I'de send that pic to kahr.

+1 to everything the others have said here, along with my .02 I can add. I will say that I went to the range with my dad one day, and shot his g26, then picked up my cm9, and couldnt hit a darn thing with it. I realized once I slowed down and focused a little more again that I had adjusted for that short trigger reset and then hadnt readjusted for the long kahr trigger pull.
Might not help you, just a thought from my experience.

Best of luck with it! Hope you get the pm figured out. I love my cm9, and it now goes everywhere with me. Hopefully you will get the kinks worked out and can make your pm9 your new best friend

[krazman]

Yes...8"-10" group 18-24 inches down and left from where I aimed at 20 yds. About 12-14 inches D&L @ 7 yds.

If I line the top edge of the back sight through the middle of the front dot I can hit level with where I want but still left. That's not instinctive though. If I align all 3 dots it's down and left.

kraz

[JustinN]

I'm with everyone else, the front site is too high, rear sight may be drifted a bit. Could have happened at the factory or during transit. My local FFL had to ship a revolver back the other day. The box it came in looked like it had been dropped off the truck and the front sight was broken off the frame....anything can happen.

That pic sure looks WAY too high...there shouldn't be a gap...and if you can group it by throwing your sight "weird", that tells me the sights are off. Call Kahr, explain the issue. Ask them for a shipping label so you dont' have to pay to send it back. They'll make it right and you'll learn to love it.

Also, as others have said, a Kahr isn't necessarily the best gun to learn on. That doesn't mean you can't, but I'll admit Glocks are easier to shoot, same with several other guns. You mentioned having a .357. I don't know about you but when I shoot a revolver double action, I really have to remind myself to be steady when pulling that long trigger, something my nice 1911s, HKs, and Glocks made me lazy of.

[wyntrout]

I couldn't find my pictures... computer hard drive failed and more problems... but addressed this once with photos of most of my Kahrs. All of them had similar gaps as that... 6 polymers and just looked at the 6th one. I'm not saying you have the CORRECT front sight, but all have gaps like that... or mine do.

Wynn