CM9 Nose Diving like a sunofagun

[tallahasseegreys]

Ugh, I hate that I am now a member of the I-have-an-issue-with-my-CM9 club.

I posted a week ago that I got a new CM9. Cleaned and lubed prior to shooting. Shot 200 Magtech 115gr FMJs - flawless. Fired 50 Golden Saber 124gr +Ps. Had 2 issues but thought it might be me because my hand was dead after that long session with such a tiny gun and aggressive backstrap.

So after that session, took her home, cleaned and lubed. Went back to range 3 days later. Only changes: I used Lawman 115gr FMJs and this time did NOT use my UPLULA speed loader (please tell me that using an UPLULA doesn't affect anything!!!). I shot about 80 rounds and had about 8 Fail to Feeds. In all cases the tip of the bullet had nose dived (nose dove??) BELOW the bottom of the feed ramp. Or maybe it did not dive there; that would be an insane dive angle. It appeared that possibly as it came up from the magazine, the tip of the bullet was protruding too far (as if the primer end of the casing was not pushed all the way to the back of the mag, if you know what I mean) and got caught below the bottom of the feed ramp and never even had a chance to feed correctly.



This happend a few times with the second round. But it also happened with other rounds as well. I used the CM9 6 round mag, as well as my K9 Elite 7 and 8 round mags. It happened with all mags. My buddy had a handful of WWB 115gr FMJs. I am pretty certain it happened with the WWB, too. But not 100% positive.

My next step is to clean and lube and return with the Magtechs. I am pretty upset that I have having to use my stockpile of 9mm to troubleshoot a gun that I am desperate to love. I've read lots of posts here but am not sure I found anything 100% applicable to this case. I saw where some had the recoil spring trimmed by Kahr...

Also, I noticed the following...I loaded the CM9 6rd mag all the way, inserted the mag with slide cosed. I very slowly pulled the mag back and very slowly eased it forward to observe the actual stripping off of a round and loading into the chamber. CONSISTENTLY, the very first round in the mag takes a noticeable "dive" down before sliding up the feed ramp. The 2,3,4,5, and 6 rounds do not do this. I then tried my 7 rd mag in my K9 Elite. Exact same behavior of first round. I do not know if this is relevant to my issue, as the bullet never got hung up below the bottom of the feed ramp. But I thought it was interesting, and I do not understand why only the 1st round exhibits this behavior in both the CM9 and K9 Elite.

Thanks everyone in advance. I am anticipating a trip to the Mommyship for my baby... :-(

[scosgt]

As to the original mag, check that the follower is not destroyed. The CM series is famous for that, and of course with a bad follower the rounds will not feed properly.

My CM40 will not feed Fiocchi 165 GR FMJ. Just won't work. Kahrs can be ammo sensitive, especially with range ammo.The rounds do not slide up the ramp. Take a good look. The ramp is offset. They bounce up the ramp. A check for burrs and a polish may be in order.

[JFootin]

I always tap the back of the mag before inserting it to assure that all rounds are back all the way. There is a thread about reshaping the followers and Greg has an excellent video about it. Here it is:
http://www.kahrtalk.com/showthread.php?t=14747

Also, some have found that cutting one loop off the mag spring helps.

Here's hoping you get this solved quickly.

[wyntrout]

A big issue is not getting all of the rounds fully to the rear in the magazine! The top one can dive if it's forward a bit and 9mm rounds kind of pull the next round forward a bit as they are chambered. Also, the pistol must be held FIRMLY so that all momentum is transferred by the slide to pushing the bullet into the chamber, and none is lost in MOVING the pistol with a loosely held pistol. If you don't do these things, the rounds are going to dive and stick on the right side of the ramp, jamming the pistol. Any riding of the slide will give you a big chance at jamming the pistol in chambering a round.

For carry, most of us load the magazine full or use another to chamber a round, then top off the carry magazine, making sure that the rounds are fully seated to the rear in the magazine... giving you at least two shots!

Wynn

[wyntrout]

Here's some more info. I added info on the over-hand rack:

Welcome to the Kahrtalk forum supported by Kahr Arms.
Here are a few essential links and things to do BEFORE you take your new pistol to the range, and ESPECIALLY BEFORE taking it apart and trying to re-assemble it! The Kahr is a different design… 6-7 unique patents cover the Kahrs. I’m not trying to imply that you don’t know anything about guns, but many don’t know anything about the Kahrs and some of the things you can do to damage or cause malfunctions of your new, or new-to-you Kahr pistol.
First, if you don’t have a manual, yet, or one didn’t come with your pistol, you can download the pdf file here:
http://www.kahr.com/PDF/kahrmanual.pdf
Impatient? Watch one of these videos FIRST! These videos can point out possible problem areas and emphasize correct procedures!
Take down and re-assembly videos:
T, TP, CW, P, & PM/CM Series:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=G2cZgVg_SwA
MK series:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...mSCnIOaUk#t=0s
K series:
http://www.kahr.com/Pistols/Kahr-K9-Elite.asp
There are many links on fixing problems listed in several places… under the New Member or Kahr Tech sub-forums.
A very handy one is the Kahr Lube Diagram:
http://kahrtalk.com/showthread.php?t=14750
Many of your questions can be answered in these areas and you can learn how your Kahr works and not damage it with improper handling.
Frequently asked questions: http://www.kahr.com/faq.asp?

One very important bit of advice: Hold the Kahr pistol firmly when firing OR CHAMBERING a round. These compact pistols need all of the force they can get from the slide to get a round into the chamber successfully. If you don't hold the pistol firmly, part of the needed momentum is transferred to MOVING THE PISTOL and the top round will DIVE and jam into the right side of the feed ramp. The weak hand, over hand rack method gives the best grip and a firm rack will give you the best chance at chambering a round. Use the weak hand fingers over the slide(clear of the ejection port), thumb along the slide and pointing to the rear. Use the gun hand to simultaneously firmly push the gun as you give a vigorous rack with the weak hand and cleanly release the slide as it reaches the rear limit and is "snatched" from the weak hand. This approximates a real rack from firing and beats the slide release method WHEN executed properly. Much more strength can be exerted when this is done closer to the body.

Here's a video on that. The first part is what I'm talking about:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=hjLbFOw8sow

There are many helpful members here most of the time who might be able to help you, but as anywhere, there are many opinions and not all are correct. Be mindful of this before doing anything drastic to modify your pistol!


Wynn
Aka wyntrout

[leveraction44]

It is a common occurance with the CM9. It is a design/manufacturing issue. Get ready for people to tell you that it is some type of operator error. The magazine retainer is catching the magazine follower causing the problem. Send it back to Kahr and tell them to make it right.

[wyntrout]

First, you have to use a proper, working procedure, then maybe it's the mag catch versus follower, but everyone doesn't read the manual or watch the videos or follow the instructions to insure that THEY are DOING THEIR PART. You can't always blame it on the pistol, either. We've seen too many operator induced "malfunctions" from people who can't take the time to read the manual or watch the very informative take down videos.

Wynn

[jocko]

How about maybe even checking to see if the magaazine spring is in the magazine correctly. Wehave in the past seen a few of these that were in backwards and it will cause issues. take the mag aprt, check it out.

[rhd04]

For all the time and money it takes the cm9 owners to get them running right you could have bought the top model pm9... This should ruffle some feathers! Lol

[tallahasseegreys]

CM9 Nose Diving like a sunofagun

Mag spring is installed correctly.

First round chambered via slide stop lever, not hand racking. This is not my first Kahr, and the manual has been read.

How does the bullet end up under the feed ramp? Not jammed into the face if the ramp. But under it.

[tallahasseegreys]

CM9 Nose Diving like a sunofagun

Can y'all see the picture? It is small, not sure how to make it bigger in the post. I

[tallahasseegreys]

CM9 Nose Diving like a sunofagun

In any case, I am willing to invest another 200 or so rounds in this. I will go back this week with the Magtech ammo which gave me 200 flawless rounds. Maybe Lawman doesn't like my gun(can't believe I wrote that sentence). After that it is going to Kahr. After that it is either going in a holster to defend my life if necessary or it's going to another home.

I am still very interested to see if anyone has witnessed what is shown in the picture.

[jocko]

are u having this issue when hand racking or is it doing this even after the gun fires the first round and then feeds autmatically the round which is ending up under the feed ramp.

if u have the slide off, can u feel/see if a round will slide up behind the extractor with no effort. If by chance that extractor is not right it might be causing it. Just asking here, . I have no clue as to why it is doing what ur saying. I could possably uderstand if one was hand racking a round in the chamber and this happens but not when the gun is cycling by itself.
U seem willing to try things , u seem willing to put more round sthorugh the gun. The members here are giving u some suggestions of things that can happen. It is ur choice to maybe take alittle time to recheck some of the suggestiosn given and then u make the decision as to whether is is something u can fix yourslef in 10 minutes or u can can just email kahr state ur problem and let them issue a pick up on thegun and let them fix it.

Many members here have trouble shot their own guns with the help of forum members who have walked in their shoes before and found out some minor things that was not rightr whgen it left the factory and it easily fixable. The decision to door not always remains with u the owner. Do u wnat to be without the gun maybe 2 to 4 weeks or are u willing to listen and check out what some are asking of u, and maybe getting through this without sending the gun back.

I do disagree with rhd04, your cm is every bit as good internally as the PM is. Your particular cm might not be right but those babies are just damn good guns. I doubt if he will ruffle feathers either as most all cm owners are totally please with their cm models. Hads the cm been avalalbe when I boughtmy PM9,I would have bought the cm in a heart beat. I do love my PMJ9 blun t nose over any kahr made today..

Guys here post some great sticky's that to some are bull sh!t. that is OK, their decision, let um send their gun back and wait for it. or u can read the stickly's and decide if anyone of them might be of concern to you. We are here to help if possable but again the final decision is yours to make.
It would be nice if u could have another shooter also shoot ur gun to see if can duplicate. U gotta start somewhere to eliminate some of the possabilitys stated here by members . Last resort IMO is to send it back.

[rhd04]

cm9 is to pm9 as rem 700 is to 40x

[Ikeo74]

Make sure the bullets are pushed all the way back in the mag and load the mag 1 short. The problem will go away.