New PM40 - broken mag follower

[sheik*yerbouti]

Hey folks. Just got a new PM40 (silver slide and standard sights model) a couple weeks ago. Been shooting a bit each weekend working through my break in period shooting outdoors at a buddies place. Carrying it in a Galco 460 pocket holster. I love the super compact size and light weight - it disappears in my pockets the the J hook on the grippy leather hostler is allowing me to draw and shoot VERY quickly and confidently while retaining the holster in my pants pocket.

Shot 100 rounds the first time out last week. Had 2 FTRB (failure to return to battery) early within the first 50 rounds (free PMC .40 given with purchase). No problems at all with the second 50 rounds of Blazer Brass that day.

I didn't clean it prior to shooting and I didn't hand cycle the gun 100's of times even though I had read everything here, AR15.com Kahr section, Glocktalk, etc, that suggest all that... In light of that and being in break in mode - no problem happy camper.

Last night I set out to shoot two more boxes of Blazer Brass to get past my first 200 rounds. First box went fine, and just into the second box (so 160 rounds total) while trying to reload the 5 round mag I noticed I couldn't get the second round in. Compairing it to my extended 6 round factory mag I could see that part of the follower was broken. The piece is inside the mag.

So if you google "Kahr broken follower" you get about a ton of results though I have only found one instance of people talking about it here. In fact I found this thread here at KahrTalk -> http://kahrtalk.com/pm-series-pistol...-question.html from this past Navember 2009 - and his broken followers look just like mine. (Im stealing his pic from that thread too since its the same deal)




Now at this point I gotta admit - my confidence is shaken just a bit. Surely this could be fixed with a design change or better materials or hell a machined aluminum follower...

Like I said if you google "Kahr broken follower" you find all kinds of threads about this all the way back through 2006. Dozens of reports of such cases.

I'm gonna give Kahr a call tomorrow and see if they will ship me a couple of followers for free.

Somthing doesn't seem right to me about this problem existing for 4-5 years on PM series guns/mags and not being able to be remedied. I have never broken a follower in any of my other pistols or rifles. (SA 1911's, XD40, Para CCO .45, AR15s, Beretta 92FS, etc.)

I think once the gun is broken in I will be confident in it. I'm assuming it will keep breaking followers tho - is someone making a better aftermarket follower anywhere?

Hello to everyone!

Any comments?

[sheik*yerbouti]

Two follow up points:

First - my PM40 is a JA36xx - PM40 - Jun 2009 build date .

Second - of the 160 rounds fired - I'd say 20 were from the extended 6 round mag, the other 140 were in the flush 5 round mag - that 5 round mag is the one the follower broke.

Oh - and these mags both drop freely when empty. Even now the 5 rounder with the damaged follower still ejects just fine.

And actually if you play with it and get the metal piece in the follower down inside the mag you can still load the mag, and cycling the gun by hand it still feeds through the rounds and locks back when done.

Looking forward to any comments. THanks!

[jocko]

yes, it seems to be more problematic in the 40 cal kahs to. I have in my PM925,800 rounds and I had once cracked follower and it never put me out of business either. I just joticed it when I cleaned my magazine. the PM40 followers to my knowledge look the same but for some reason they show issues more than the others.

it is not pandemic but it is well written about on other forums as u stated but sometimes we seem to be reading the same persons posts time and time again on different forums to.

My theory and it is just a SWAG (scientific wild ass guess) is that the recoil in the PM40 is such that it is actually cracking the front part of the followers upon recoil. Most don't know when it happens but I feel it is towards the top of the magazine where the follower is not completly inside the magazine and the bottom part of the follower is taking all the brunt force of the recoil. I would indeed have 3 or 4 followers around just in case. Doesn't mean every follower will break either but better safe than sorry..

If you call kahr and ask for IAN, he will send you a replacement no charge, u might even ask for 2 and see what he says..

[gb6491]

Here's an interesting read about a "fix" for PM40s with broken followers:
PM40 magazine follower broken - Glock Talk
Regards,
Greg

[jocko]

wow

Good Info on there GB. I bet that will solve his problem.

that is good information, Kahr should be taking care of this. A ramp job is something I would not advise one doing unless he really has all of his sh-t in one sack.

For if it fails, you have voided probalby any warranty with kahr. They made the damn gun, they should be taking care of this and if it is just a ramp change, then kahr should be doing it. I think this is serious mod stuff that should not have to be taken on by the owner.

If it was a metal magazine follower, I would think this would not be an issue, just my 2 cents..

[sviking]

See if Kahr has any metal followers like they do for the PM9. My PM9, circa 2005, has poly followers, but the two spare mags I ordered had metal followers. LOTS of rounds through them all and zero problems with either the poly or metal followers.

Nice to see you here Sheik from The High Road.us.

[sheik*yerbouti]

Jocko / rb6491 / ryoung :

Hey gents thanks for the quick replys!

Jocko: I assembled my PM40 without the slide - just barrel and slide lock and inserted a mag - boy that feel ramp is almost touching the follower with an empty mag. I think you are on the money about that and metal followers making it a non issue too!

GB: Yea I think a feed-ramp-ectomy by either Kahr or a competant gunsmith would fix the issue long term. I think first I'm gonna see if I can get spare mags with metal followers!

sviking: I'm definately calling Kahr today to see about new mags with metal followers and to see if they will send me a couple followers (poly i guess is ok but i bet it keeps eating them! - metal preferred)

Also sviking - tho I have been using this handle in forums and online gaming since about 1998 - that is not me over at the high road. I've lurked but never posted or registered there. The name comes from a 1970's Frank Zappa album of the same name. I bet he is a right sensible chap like myself : ) if he can understand the place of wacky music as contained on that FZ album. It's a truly looney work...

Thanks again guys - will report back with whatever happens.

[sviking]

GB: Yea I think a feed-ramp-ectomy by either Kahr or a competant gunsmith would fix the issue long term. I think first I'm gonna see if I can get spare mags with metal followers!

Although it's pretty sad and quite a pisser to see this craptastic BS on a quality pistol, such as a Kahr, I do hope you get this fixed pronto. I dealt with this follower issue and performed more than one "rampectomy" on Kel-Tec P3ATs going all the way back to the Super Flyer days (he's the one generally credited with doing it first on the P3ATs) and the old KTRANGE forum. I wasn't so surprised to see that on a POS Kel-Tec, but a Kahr? Boy, I'd have been PISSED after that P3AT fiasco. The rampectomy did work, but it was PITA than an owner should have never had to do. Kel-Tec did finally incorporate the design into the feed ramp on the 2nd generation P3ATs and it helped, but it wasn't enough because it wasn't deep/radiused enough at first, so out came the Dremel...again. So glad I've had ZERO problems with this on my PM9 with either the poly or metal followers.

Sad to say it, but I don't think the metal followers will help if it truly is an issue with the feed ramp seriously bashing into the front of the follower. The metal will still bend/dent and STILL possibly crack. And, if it gets bad enough, I could see it causing the follower to bind up inside the magazine body causing serious malfunctions...

Also, keep a close eye on the back of your magazines at the top of the feed lips. The P3ATs had a MAJOR problem with the top rear area cracking and eventually splitting on either side from the feed ramp driving the followers into the back of the magazines. This happened with mine and I saw pictures that were so bad that the follower and spring allowed the feed lips to separate enough to pop out the top of the magazine. And, this wasn't because of inferior quality Kel-Tec magazines. They use mags made by Mec-Gar, same as Kahr. They are excellent magazines.

[sheik*yerbouti]

Thanks for the sympathy sviking... ; )

Well I just got off the phone with Kahr tech support. Told him I had a 2 week old PM40 with 175 rounds thru just working through the break in period - and that it broke a follower in the mag I was using the most.

Before he said anything I said that on the Kahr Talk forums, someone had said that they got a PM9 spare mag from Kahr and it had a metal follower and asked if that would be available for my PM40. He said they have never made metal mag followers. I didn't say anything else about that aspect of it.

I asked if this was a common occurance. He said that it does come up from time to time but it's not an everyday issue for them.

I asked if they would ship me a new follower and he said sure, took my address and name, and that was that.

Will see what happens as I continue to run rounds. :33:

I'll be sure to report back, thanks guys.

[jocko]

I talked to one of the directors inside Kahr today about this follower issue and if it was ramps doing it. There answer was an affirmative NO and followed up the comment that "we do have a bunch of bad followers out there", and if anyone has any issues to contact kahr and tey will take care of it. Theire specific advice was to not touch the feed ramp.

So you can decipher what ever you want from the above, Just reporting was i was told by one who has so far shot stragiht with me in every question I have asked..

[sheik*yerbouti]

Thanks for the additional info jocko.

Put 75 more rounds downrange last night - at 250 now. 25 Blazer Brass 180gr .40 and 50 Federal American Eagle 180gr.

No FTRB's! Went bang everytime! Whoo hoo!

But I am getting the warm fuzzies at the moment - gun ran GREAT. Lots of draw from holster and double tap, several rapid full mag dumps. Only a couple mags shot slow fire target style.

But I think if I *really* look closely - my one remaining intact follower does have some marks on it that may not have been there when I started. Not 100% certain tho. Time and more rounds will tell.

[Raoul]

Howabout some pics of your new toy? From one PM40 guy to another...

[gb6491]

I talked to one of the directors inside Kahr today about this follower issue and if it was ramps doing it. There answer was an affirmative NO and followed up the comment that "we do have a bunch of bad followers out there", and if anyone has any issues to contact kahr and tey will take care of it. Theire specific advice was to not touch the feed ramp.

So you can decipher what ever you want from the above, Just reporting was i was told by one who has so far shot stragiht with me in every question I have asked..

That's the same answer Caver 60 said he got from Kahr in the GT thread.
That post was made over a year ago; I wonder how big that "bunch of bad followers" is. It'll be interesting to see how the replacement followers that sheik*yerbouti receives hold up. They surely wouldn't be sending replacement followers from a known bad bunch.
Regards,
Greg

[rss5995]

my pm40 and p40 broke followers routinely. the older the gun gets, the more frequently they break. i sent the pm40 into kahr for repairs and it broke a follower within the first 100 rounds after repair. finally gave up, sold 'em and bought a metal mk40. no broken followers so far at about 500 rounds. no ejecting mags either, another problem with the polymer guns, and no ftf or ftrb. the metal kahr seems to be the solution. too many problems with the polymer kahrs. much higher quality in the metal ones.

[sheik*yerbouti]

Yikes. Well if I have to find a gunsmith the shorten the feed ramp a hair sometime down the road, its not the end of the world. I have no tolerance for carrying aynything on my belt IWB or OWB. I just don't like it - I am constantly made aware that I have it as it affects everything from sitting in a booth at Subway at lunch to in and out of my vehicle. It made me not carry daily for the first 3 years of having my CCW.

I also had no interest in .380 or .32 - or really anything smaller than 9mm.

This PM frame is my maximum CCW carry size and weight even though I'm 30, 6'0.5" 205lbs. Even though the PM40 and holster flops around a bit in my jeans pockets if I'm hustling along - and sometimes when sitting, I can kinda tell the grip is printing pretty bad - still this is my limit in dimensions and weight of what I will actually take with me EVERY morning.

That being said - I love the way it shoots, it's plenty controllable, and since mine is running great I would not be afraid to spend more money on it to get its tolereances in line so that I'm not breaking followers forever...

I'm pleased that this is as active a forum as it is! ; )