PM9193 Enhanced trigger :: LCI/External Safety

[00Ghost00]

I'm sure this has been asked a thousand times, so make this 1+

I previously owned a CM9, but disliked the LoP of the trigger to the point that I traded it for an XDs 45. I just had a difficult time knowing where the break point was when firing the CM9 during range shooting sessions. (I understand in a high stress situation this is likely a moot point)

While I love my XDs, it's a brick. At 26+ oz's on a carry load, it becomes very cumbersome at times. As such, I'm back to looking for a lighter pocket carry 9mm for a warmer months option. After going over the volumes of info on the Net, I'm back to looking at a PM9. Specifically, a PM9193 of 2012-current date manufacture that has the "enhanced" trigger.

From all the info I can find about the "enhanced" trigger, it's my understanding that the LoP for the trigger was shortened from 3/8, to 1/4. Effectively dropping 1/8 off the trigger travel. Other than this, there's no real difference in the trigger itself, correct? (the trigger pull weight is the same) Is this change that noticeable, or more of a selling point from Kahr's perspective? The "enhanced" PM9193's are very rare birds in my neck of the woods, so I can't seem to find one in-stock at any of my LGS's to confirm this statement from a true hands-on experience.

I've read comments posted where there's discussions about replacing the striker spring with a Wolff product that effectively does the same thing on standard PM9/CM9's. (alluding to the fact that this is something Kahr may have done to make the new trigger "enhanced".) I don't mind spending the higher cost for the other aspects a PM9193 offers (mostly the oddly functioning external safety), but if I can get the same effect by picking up a CM9 and dropping in a Wolff spring my pocket book (and wife) would be much happier.

I've finally located a recent production PM9193, and I'd like to make the purchase if there's enough of a difference in the trigger LoP? (akin to the change Ruger recently made to the LCP 380 line)

[jocko]

the 5# striker only reduces trigger pressure, not trigger travel. The enhanced trigger to my knowledge still has the standard kahr trigger spring,which is around 6.5 - 7# U ca'tmake the cm9 enhanced..

with the enhanced trigger u do realize u get the external safety also. which many do not want, when u get down to a 1/4 trigger travel the gun is getting hairy and IMO into glock territory and some kind of safety might be needed. Certanly kahr felt that way.

IMO if u ain't comfortable with the 3/8" trigger traavel I seriously doubt an 1/8' less travel is gonna make u that much happier. Just my 21 cents on thos. We can and we will give u our opinions but the bottom line is how u feel about it..

[muggsy]

+1 What Jocko said. The Kahr trigger is exactly as it should be for a self defense gun. It wasn't intended to be a target pistol though they are very accurate for a short barrel gun with a short sight radius. It has a far better double action trigger than most revolvers made today. Go with the 5# striker spring and you'll learn to love it.

[00Ghost00]

Thanks for the responses.

I'm going to buy the PM9193. At the time of the CM9 ownership all I had to compare the Kahr trigger against were Glocks. I've expanded my trigger experience to other styles since then (no wheel guns though), and I've been able to improve my grip style, and finger-to-trigger control significantly. I'm confident that just spending more training time with the Kahr's trigger will make all the difference this go around. I actually like the external safety aspect, considering the different trigger. Albeit, I wish a Kahr representative would provide a solid reasoning why its functionality is backwards from the norm, beyond "for demonstration purposes". (whatever that means )

My wife recently purchased an LCP that has the newer trigger. She disliked the Kahr CM9, but likes this LCP's trigger. (She also has a P238, and tries to compare it's SA trigger to everything else. ) I measured the LCP's LoP to break point (after the initial take-up) and it's approx 3/8 to 7/16'ish. I actually like the new trigger Ruger put in as well, so I'm even more confident the PM9193 will be more than satisfactory for my purposes.

[garyb]

Can't you test the trigger before you buy it? Most gun shops will let you look it over and refund your deposit if you are not pleased with your order.

[340pd]

Not to hijack this thread but please be aware that the XDs 45 and 9mm are subject to recall. No knock on Springfield, but go to the website for more info.

"This Safety Recall applies only to:
Springfield 3.3 XD-S™ 9mm pistols - serial numbers between XS900000 and
XS938700
Springfield 3.3 XD-S™ .45ACP pistols - serial numbers between XS500000 and XS686300."

[00Ghost00]

Can't you test the trigger before you buy it? Most gun shops will let you look it over and refund your deposit if you are not pleased with your order.

Unfortunately, my source is not a LGS. Finding a 2012+ PM9193 has been very difficult, so I'm having to purchase over the Internet. I've tried a myriad of LGS's in my region, but all state 2012+ PM9193 are "special order"/backordered. That makes it difficult to ask them to obtain one just to test the trigger, only find out I may decline the purchase. Believe me, if I could find one locally this thread would be a moot point.

Not to hijack this thread but please be aware that the XDs 45 and 9mm are subject to recall. No knock on Springfield, but go to the website for more info.

"This Safety Recall applies only to:
Springfield 3.3 XD-S™ 9mm pistols - serial numbers between XS900000 and
XS938700
Springfield 3.3 XD-S™ .45ACP pistols - serial numbers between XS500000 and XS686300."

Funny you mention this recall. I've had zero problems with my XDs 45, but shipped mine back to SA on Friday for the recall anyways. (better to be safe than sorry) It's the 4-6+ week turn around time I anticipate that has me looking for other options. (Calls to SA reps are reporting 2 - 4 weeks, but I suspect that's a little too quick for the advertised volume of expected RMA returns.)

I've always told myself if I ever find a 2012+ PM9193 I'm going to buy it, regardless of the XDs recall. I just need a bit of a sanity check to make sure I have clear expectations around what Kahr states is an "enhanced" trigger when compared to other configurations.

[Gringo Pistolero]

I'm not surprised that you are having a hard time finding the "MA Compliant" version of the PM9 here in Texas.

I really don't think that 1/8" less travel would make any substantial difference in the feel of the trigger, and personally I wouldn't want the additional complexity that the LCI and external safety would add to an already excellent carry weapon.

I may be way off here, but my impression is that the external safety versions are being built to allow sales in states that require the additional features. The "enhanced" trigger is just a little bonus for those geographically handicapped folks...

[Popeye]

I prefer the grip on my PM9 over the grip on the Shield. Although the overall thickness might be the same I didn't care for the way the Shield grip tapered back before it went into the radius of the back strap. Back straps radius was way to tight for my liking when I shot it. I can't say I was all that crazy about the trigger either. Over all it did seem like a well made pistol, but it just didn't impress me enough to actually buy one.
The Kahr triggers do have a learning curve to them at first, but once you have mastered it, buy pulling the trigger in one smooth and continuous motion from front to back, you'll grow to love them.

[dkmatthews]

If you buy the PM9193 and decide you don't like it, I'm sure you will be able to resell it here. If you sell it for $20 or $30 less than you paid for it, consider it like an extended range rental fee. I never think of it as losing money, but of gaining experience for a small price.

[C0untZer0]

I think people quite often underestimate the importance of controls. And I think people assume that if a safety flips down, then it's like the 1911 or Browning Hi-Power.

I've worked the safety on the PM9 and to me it doesn't feel like an easy flip down. To me it felt more like rotating a dial. It just wasn't an easy flip, and it's not laid out very far from the backstrap, I had to bend my thumb to operate it.

For people who really want an external safety, it is an option. I just didn't like it for myself.

[00Ghost00]

Follow-up:

Today's arrival, and I'm very, very pleased.



The trigger is DEFINITELY much better than I remember with the CM9. There is some slight (but smooth) initial take-up, and then a very good heavy'ish pull to break point. It "feels" shorter to me, so that's all that matters. I'm looking forward to tomorrow's break-in range session. (Will be doing a "jocko's proper prep" tonight.)

[Icer]

I have that model and think you will love it. Just ignore those who will bash it because of the safety. As you can tell, the safety isn't in the way and doesn't need to be used...a non-issue IMO.

[garyb]

I have that model and think you will love it. Just ignore those who will bash it because of the safety. As you can tell, the safety isn't in the way and doesn't need to be used...a non-issue IMO.

I agree. My PM does not have a safety, but I have other guns with a safety. Some triggers probably need one....some don't. Use em if you want...or not. It is simply a feature that does not get in the way and is there if you want to use it for some reason. (EX: I set the safety if there are kids around me. It is very unnecessary, but I feel better about the safety being set on when kids are around me. Just me.) It is not important if the feature gets bashed or not. It is what the owner wants.

Nice looking gun 00Ghost00. Congrats! Hope it works out good for you.

[00Ghost00]

Yeah, the external safety isn't a major factor (for me) in this purchase. I just wanted the enhanced trigger. IMHO, Kahr just handcuffed the ext safety to the "enhanced" trigger models for liability reasons. Otherwise, even non-MA compliant/non-ext safety models would have the same trigger treatment. I don't plan on leveraging (heh, pun!) the feature, as after spending some time trying to find a way to make quick manipulation work, it's obviously just not meant to be used in a "quick deploy" manner. It's a great feature to use if the firearm is not 100% secured in a holster on your person, or in a safe locked away. I'll give it that much.

So quick update: Range session today. 100 rds of 115gr FMJ. 100% flawless function. No FTF, FTE, slide lock back/no lock back issues. Both the 6rd and ext 7rd mags worked without issues. I used the slide release every time to chamber a round from magazine. Spot checking random fired brass showed no issues either. Good solid/deep primer strikes evident. Brass ejection worked as desired with no brass back in the face, straight up, or in an otherwise odd direction.

Simply put, I'm elated.

Now I need to start mixing in some SD rds in the next break-in session(s) to find out which feeds/shoots reliably. I also need to put NS on ASAP. I was having difficulty at 1st with accuracy. I blame part of that on the fact I was also shooting my M&P 45c with TFO's in between magazine loads on the Kahr. Once I stopped shooting the M&P I was able to figure out the Kahr's sight placement, and zeroed in with much better accuracy. I still had some difficulty picking up the front sight clearly, so a good set of NS should help remedy that aspect. I'd love to have a Trijicon HD front sight, but it doesn't appear they make one that'll fit a Kahr. That leaves standard Mepro's as the next best option.