How accurate are you with your PM9?

[racuda]

I'm considering getting one, and wondered what kind of groups everyone gets. Also if you have Crimson Trace or other laser sights how did that tighten up your groups? One more thing, does your PM9 shoot to POA?

I get 3" groups (on a good day) at 10 yards with my XD9-sc and S&W MP340. The revolver has CT grips. Do you think I can improve on that with a PM9?

[jreXD9]

if you can get those kinds of groups with your xd9 you should have no problem with the PM9 groups. Mine aren't as good as yours but from my xd9sc (dearly departed) to my PM9, CW9 and CW45 the groups have been about the same.

[deadhead1971]

I went crimson trace about 1,000 rds ago.

The gun is very accurate. The trick is pulling/pressing/squeezing the trigger without jerking or moving the gun. I do jerk the gun a lot and have flyers.

But the last time out, I stuck some quarter size stick-on circles (NC Target black sticky dots), and was able to nail them at 25 to 30 feet with the CT. I don't think I could have done that with just the sights.

The PM9 has a totally different trigger feel (DAO) than the XD. Go to a shop and dry fire one and see. The good thing about the PM9 is that you can pocket carry it. The bad thing is that it has less rounds than the XD with its single stack magazine.

http://kahrtalk.com/pm-series-pistol...uracy-pm9.html

[kahrseye]

I like my PM9, am pretty accurate with it and love to pocket carry it. I think I'm more accurate with the PM45 though and like the way it shoots vs the PM9. However, pocket carry with the PM45 is more challenging. I've had one gun with a laser on it and didn't like it. I fear that one may become too dependent on the laser and of course just when you need it, it goes out on you. When I shoot my guns I use a 9 inch paper plate as a target. I'm not so concerned about 3 inch groups as I am just hitting that plate. Call it old guy syndrome....but if you put that plate on your chest and I can hit anywhere inside that plate, you're in trouble. My goal is to be able to hit my target at 7 yards or less (self defense distance). Just my two cents worth so take it for what it's worth.

[recoilguy]

A good shooter with a good gun will have good results. The PM 9 is a good gun. The CT laser is just a sight aid it does not make groups tighter. It may help you see better resulting in better groups. I know it does that for me. My eyes are a little less effective then they used to be.

The PM9 I shoot is pretty much right on and I like to shoot it.

RCG

[oldtex]

.... One more thing, does your PM9 shoot to POA?......

I just got my PM9 back from Kahr. They replaced the barrel and slide because of a peening problem. It had about 1800 rds on it when I sent it back. It had a tendency to shoot high (about 4-6" at 15yds with Win USA 115 gr ball ammo) pretty consistently throughout that 1800 rds.

I've put a little over 200 rds of 115 gr ball (with 0 malfunctions) through it since getting it back. I haven't checked carefully for POA-POI convergence, but it "seems" to be shooting high. I'm pretty confident that this isn't an operator error issue as I have no such problem with other handguns.

I'll do some structured POA-POI testing with my 147 gr Federal HST ammo soon. Based on previous experience, I expect it to shoot to a higher POI than the 115 ball ammo.

I have searched the web for taller front sights but haven't found any indication that any such thing for a Kahr exists. Anyone know of a taller than standard front sight for a PM9? Guess I could have the top of the rear sight shaved down a bit.

I am a fan of lasers on fighting guns for various reasons. The POA-POI disparity just adds one more reason IMO to add a laser to a fighting gun.

For whatever it's worth, I find the PM9 to be much easier to shoot fast and accurately than any of my .38 j-frames(all with standard fixed sights), whether alloy or all-stainless. This seems true whether I'm moving or stationary, or shooting two-handed, strong hand only or weak hand only.

[ripley16]

These two targets were the first rounds I fired with a new Kahr K9 that came with CT laser grips. If I recall, the distance was 7 or more yards, but not more than 12 yards.
The top target is a group fired with the sights.


The second group was fired with the laser on and I was sighting only with the laser and not using the sights.



As you can see the groups are pretty close. A laser won't necessarily make you more accurate, but they do allow for a very good unaimed shot, say from the hip or elbow height.

[DKD]

I too just shot my PM9 for the first time yesterday. Only fired (60) round thus far with zero issues with FMJ or Hollow Points. Since the grip is quite small my pinky finger was sort of unsupported under the magazine. I settled down and got a few decent groups at 7 yards rapid fire in the 2 1/2" range once I got use to it. I do fire my PM45 better since it fits my hands perfectly, but it is slightly larger than the PM9 and thus more difficult to pocket carry.
The PM9 is more capable than the shooter and does and will require practise or should I say perfect practise to remain totally proficient.
So far I love the gun...hell I love them both....my favorite carry pieces and my daily companions.

[jocko]

Improve

I'm considering getting one, and wondered what kind of groups everyone gets. Also if you have Crimson Trace or other laser sights how did that tighten up your groups? One more thing, does your PM9 shoot to POA?

I get 3" groups (on a good day) at 10 yards with my XD9-sc and S&W MP340. The revolver has CT grips. Do you think I can improve on that with a PM9?

3" groupls at 10 yards with PM9, probalby not, IMO.

[Frankhenrylee]

Got a PM40, no problem dumping mags into centermass at 10yds. Headshots are easy when taking my time. You'll be surprised at how easy Kahr's are to shoot. I was reluctant at first going with the .40 in such a small gun, but I also wanted good knock down power with so few rounds to carry. My wife is about 100lbs. and shoots it with no problem. Also, no malfunctions to date.

[racuda]

Thanks for all the replies. I should mention that I do have a Kahr P380 (which I may sell if I get a PPM9). Can I expect a PM9 trigger to feel similar to the P380?


oldtex mentioned that his PM9 shoots high. Does anyone else have POI issues? I know that my P380 shoots low and I've heard others say the same about the 380, so I wondered if the same models consistently perform the same.

[Bawanna]

Thanks for all the replies. I should mention that I do have a Kahr P380 (which I may sell if I get a PPM9). Can I expect a PM9 trigger to feel similar to the P380?


oldtex mentioned that his PM9 shoots high. Does anyone else have POI issues? I know that my P380 shoots low and I've heard others say the same about the 380, so I wondered if the same models consistently perform the same.

The trigger on the PM9 will be very very similar if not identical to your 380. I've heard a few here mentioning that their Kahrs shoot high or low but I don't think its a given pandemic thing, seems to be just a few. There's another thread where we were trying to figure out if maybe the wrong sights got installed. It seems the majority shoot right where they look. As popular as the PM9 is I have little doubt you'll be very happy with it. And going from 380 to 9, well that's just gotta be a good thing.

[deadhead1971]

The only POI issue I have is that the bullets seem laser guided to the red dot.

I have the red dot aligned and centered with the gun's front and rear sight so that tells me it's shooting straight.

When I first started shooting the PM9, I was griping because I was hitting everything 3" left of POA. My first reaction was the sights are off, but with patience and a lot of ammo, I am able to hit pretty much dead center POA.

[jocko]

snap caps, my friend will tell u alot about how the sights are doing or how the shooter is doing.

If your low and left, ur probalby a right hand shooter. Kahr sights their guns in with 124 grain ammo and I think it is at 15 yards, so I have been told. One might have to change his sight picture a tad for up and downs, but the rear sight is moveable for right and left corrections, although very hard to move on kahrs BUT IT WILL MOVE..

I have found that POA shooting with these little kahrs is very good indeed and faster than trignt o line the sights up, for in a defense situation, that scenario is just not going to happen. Get good at 7 yards with POA shooting, forget about trying toput them in the same hole, as again ur not gonna even get close to doing that in a defense situation. Get your trigger control down to a no thought process and concentrate on that front sight only and all the rest will fall in place as your pulling up your gun. Again practice close. Kahrs are IMO "hand shaking" guns.

Practice with some snap caps in your magazines, they will show ur shooting errors faster than anything. When we anticiapte the shot "thing" that is when spreads start to show up and we tend to blame the gun, for the gun cannot talk back. Also think about when your shots started to go to hell to. 50 rounds down range, 100, 150. cold be shooter gertting tired, grip changing or twisting in ones hand. all things that we really don't see happening for we are concetrating on the target and sights etc. Just my 2 cent shere but 99.995% of the time it is not the gun or the improper height of the sights.

I have 28,900 rounds through my pM9 and I have said it man times on here, I am not a good shot and my groups at best at 7 yards are normally 3 " Plus Plus, but for me every shot is inside the FBI "Q" silhouette target and that tells me I have put all my shots in the critical area for the BG to be really pissed.
When I want to shoot 2" groups I grab my tuned G19 with dawson fiber optic adjustable sights and I can sit there and do it all day long at 7 yards, actually gets boring with my G19, where as my PM9 is still giving me a challenge to succeed.

Indeed if a gun could talk, it would help all of us. Probably my PM9 would by now be telling me to sell it and let a GOOD SHOOTER own it.

[Bawanna]

snap caps, my friend will tell u alot about how the sights are doing or how the shooter is doing.

If your low and left, ur probalby a right hand shooter. Kahr sights their guns in with 124 grain ammo and I think it is at 15 yards, so I have been told. One might have to change his sight picture a tad for up and downs, but the rear sight is moveable for right and left corrections, although very hard to move on kahrs BUT IT WILL MOVE..

I have found that POA shooting with these little kahrs is very good indeed and faster than trignt o line the sights up, for in a defense situation, that scenario is just not going to happen. Get good at 7 yards with POA shooting, forget about trying toput them in the same hole, as again ur not gonna even get close to doing that in a defense situation. Get your trigger control down to a no thought process and concentrate on that front sight only and all the rest will fall in place as your pulling up your gun. Again practice close. Kahrs are IMO "hand shaking" guns.

Practice with some snap caps in your magazines, they will show ur shooting errors faster than anything. When we anticiapte the shot "thing" that is when spreads start to show up and we tend to blame the gun, for the gun cannot talk back. Also think about when your shots started to go to hell to. 50 rounds down range, 100, 150. cold be shooter gertting tired, grip changing or twisting in ones hand. all things that we really don't see happening for we are concetrating on the target and sights etc. Just my 2 cent shere but 99.995% of the time it is not the gun or the improper height of the sights.

I have 28,900 rounds through my pM9 and I have said it man times on here, I am not a good shot and my groups at best at 7 yards are normally 3 " Plus Plus, but for me every shot is inside the FBI "Q" silhouette target and that tells me I have put all my shots in the critical area for the BG to be really pissed.
When I want to shoot 2" groups I grab my tuned G19 with dawson fiber optic adjustable sights and I can sit there and do it all day long at 7 yards, actually gets boring with my G19, where as my PM9 is still giving me a challenge to succeed.

Indeed if a gun could talk, it would help all of us. Probably my PM9 would by now be telling me to sell it and let a GOOD SHOOTER own it.

Gosh darn, thought there was a chance of me owning that highly modified and tricked out although well broken in PM9 till you added that GOOD SHOOTER bit. So much for that afternoon day dream huh?