Trigger Reset Fail

[Captrigney]

Do me a favor, guys, and take a peek at your trigger bars. Are they worn where they meet the slide?

[shlike]

One reason ol jocko has recommended the non cholorinated brake cleaner, or any non cholorinated cleaner is that it is about 3 times cheaper than cleaners like gun scrubber that is the same thing only with alittle better perfume in it to make u feel good aobut getting fokked for paying that kind of money. IO any spray cleaner that drys fast is great for the striker chanel. I would say stay away form any lubing or any cleaners that leave an oil film. Keep the channel clean and dry, and that little clean out hole on the bottom front of the slide is just why it is there. It feed directly into the striker channel, so IMO every time u clean ur weapon give that channel a 5 second spray and ur good to go. I in over 32K rounds of my PMJ9 have had the striker channel down one time and that wasto insert the 5# striker spring and at that time I made sure that channel was perfectly clean and clear of any excess gunk left over at kahr. Since then I have used the hole every time I clean my weapon. The channel is supposed to be clean and free of crude when u buy it BUT we don't know that and we do know that many have cleaned and found crapola in there that hindered the striker somewhoat. Just errror on the side of caution.. Keeping poil as much as possable out of the kahrs actions will also keep ur pockets from staining to if u pocket carry. I just don't think u can be TW25 for a super grease on the kahr rails and slide groover. That little visible hump on the back of the triger bar by the right side frame, is a good place to put a dab of that grease to...Just sayin

Could someone translate this please??!! I use TW25 on the rails and slide "groover", and would like to know if Jocko is saying that this is good or bad?

[89grand]

I think it was supposed to read "I just don't think you can beat TW25 for a super grease...".

I use synthetic wheel bearing grease on mine.

[jocko]

I think it was supposed to read "I just don't think you can beat TW25 for a super grease...".

I use synthetic wheel bearing grease on mine.

that is what I meant to sayu. TW25 is usede by our military in many of their auto weapons. great stuff, wont run, either.

[shlike]

that is what I meant to sayu. TW25 is usede by our military in many of their auto weapons. great stuff, wont run, either.

I agree. I always use TW25 grease on rails and slide surfaces. Oil on the other parts. A thin bead of TW25 stays put, doesn't drip and is more durable between cleanings.

[addictedhealer]

Do me a favor, guys, and take a peek at your trigger bars. Are they worn where they meet the slide?

Mine is, I removed everything from my slide and frame and gave a mirror polish on all the bits. Smooth as it gets.

[Antarius]

Yes mine has a wear mark.

[muggsy]

Could someone translate this please??!! I use TW25 on the rails and slide "groover", and would like to know if Jocko is saying that this is good or bad?

It's apparent that someone neglected to send out a Jocko decoder ring to you. I'll have Bawanna send one to you buy pony express from his mountain retreat in the Great North West.

[seed]

Here is a video of a trigger reset fail with the problem seeming to be that the trigger bar doesn't lift UP after racking rather than not getting pushed down enough: http://youtu.be/h5wFy81mQds

Whoa.... You forgot to keep the trigger depressed, simulating what would happen during firing:

1 You pull the trigger, the striker is released and hits the primer to detonate the primer, etc.
2 The recoil impulse causes the slide to go back, which pushes down on the tab, at first in the dug-out ramped curve area and then the underside of the slide rail (bottom most part of the slide)
3 This causes the trigger bar to disengage the dual cams, which reset.
4 The slide goes back forward and the bottom of the striker tang is engaged by the trigger cam and the trigger is reset.
5 You release the trigger and pull it again.

In the video, if you kept the trigger pressed during your manual slide pull, the gun would have attempted to do all these things. But since you didn't keep the trigger depressed, the dual cams did not rotate to allow re-engagement with the tang. Pushing up or medially on the trigger bar after the fact caused the trigger bar to disengage the cams, which then rotated. I'm guessing that the cam just barely touches the tang in this case, causing an unusual pull, because it has to overcome the striker spring tension from a non-half-cocked position. I'm also guessing that it probably isn't very good to do this as the tolerances can become affected, due to unusual stresses. But I have to look to confirm these suspicions, so don't quote me on that yet.

Bottom line though is that the video makes an error which is crucial towards understanding or misunderstanding what is happening.

[Captrigney]

seed,

So there's no misunderstanding, the video is not mine, but just one I found online with a similar problem. Could be apples and oranges.

Your chain of events is exactly what I have deduced should happen from my own inspection after I began having the reset failure.

My experience in trying to re-create the failure is that after #2 (while keeping the trigger pulled and exerting some upward pull on the rear of the slide while racking), #3 through #5 does not occur. I'm thinking that with the worn trigger bar, there may be just enough slop in that area to occasionally not function properly.

Now, perhaps all CM9's will fail to reset if the rear of the slide is pulled up while racking and that in actual live fire this upward force would not occur. I don't know but would like to. If any curious Kahr owners out there would like to experiment, I would be interest in the results.

If my CM9 is not unusual in that regard, then perhaps it is the shooter that is the cause. I would be nice to figure it out, though. I appreciate all the help from this forum.

[seed]

You are not committing any errors, so don't let anyone tell you so. I remember the days before the forums and all the nonsense that used to be spewed about alleged user-error or ammo related stuff causing problems. Well it only got worse when the forums came...but it also got better. You just have to swim through all the nonsense to find the currents of truths and likelihoods. There are a lot of knowledgeable people on the boards and youtube...but a ton more idiots as well. Kahrs are not complicated by any stretch. I'm no expert, but I can deduce things pretty well, especially with the aid of knowledgeable posters like yourself and what's his name (the OP from that other thread). To sum up my opinion (and that's all it is), your trigger bar tab is getting partially trapped and the drag is preventing the trigger bar from dropping forcefully enough to complete the downward trajectory, necessary to reset the dual cams...sometimes. In conclusion, I would open up a conversation with the OP of that other thread and pick his brain. He laid it out very well in his thread, but it would be a good idea to get his input on your particular problem. He seems to know his stuff on the matter. Just click on the link I pasted in my first post on this thread.

[seed]

Mine is, I removed everything from my slide and frame and gave a mirror polish on all the bits. Smooth as it gets.

Impressive! I need to do this very thing on my PM9. I can't do it on my MK-40 as it is now cerakoted.

[Captrigney]

To sum up my opinion (and that's all it is), your trigger bar tab is getting partially trapped and the drag is preventing the trigger bar from dropping forcefully enough to complete the downward trajectory, necessary to reset the dual cams.

After re-reading the other post you supplied, I pretty sure this is indeed the issue. The only way the outside of the TB could be worn on the outside is if it was being caught inside the slide. I'll likely send it back to Kahr for a new trigger bar before trying to smith it myself.

Thanks again.

[jocko]

Impressive! I need to do this very thing on my PM9. I can't do it on my MK-40 as it is now cerakoted.

smooth is always good. nice job, time will hopefully tell to..

[Tilos]

Mine is, I removed everything from my slide and frame and gave a mirror polish on all the bits. Smooth as it gets.

Just so you know, those parts are shiny, not smooth.
There's a difference