Sight replacement on PM9 - DIY or send to Kahr Arms?

[pist]

I'm considering replacing the sights on my PM9 with Williams Firesights. I am familiar with tritium sights, have used them, and am not considering them. So, thanks in advance for the advice, but sight selection is not what this is about.

My question has to do with the swapping of the sights. My PM9 is brand new, having been purchased only a few weeks ago (i.e. April 2017). Are the sights on these guns still super tight, like they were in years prior? I am definitely not entrusting my slide to a gunsmith. I'm just trying to decide if I should attempt the swap myself, or if I should send it to Kahr Arms. Can anyone advise?

I did send my K9 to Kahr Arms for a sight swap, but that was in the 1990s. They did a pretty good job, but there was some cosmetic damage to the rear sight and slide. Can anyone comment on their more recent experience here?

[Bawanna]

Not all gunsmiths are created equal. Some may in fact be better than the fella's at Kahr, many obviously are not near as good.

I don't know if the newer guns are still tight or not, I assume they are.

Sending to Kahr is the least risky option. Then again if you have the stuff and the desire and the patience what one man can do another can do.

I do know it's darn tough to install sights with zero cosmetic damage. Keeping it to a minimum is a success in my book.

[pist]

Thanks for the reply. I'm sure there are excellent gunsmiths in my area, but I have no idea who they are, and I'm not going to take anyone's word on it. I love the expression "what one man can do, another can do", but I don't have a sight tool or any particular training. If I knew the sights would budge, I'd buy a tool and give it a go, but I've been reading lots of horror stores about people who did that and failed, or who tried using a punch and also failed.

[Bawanna]

I think Kahr is your best option.

The best guy I ever knew for sights, appropriately called himself the Sightman. Didn't own a sight pusher tool, or if he did he never used it.

A good vise, a small hammer and some punches. He moved on us, not sure if he retired or not.
Did a lot of sight work for the department.

The sight tool is the ticket for getting old sights off, but I think it's often misused to install the new sights and that was the Sightmans theory as well.

[finpro]

Dovetailed sights are made to be removed and installed. It is not especially hard to replace the sights on a PM9. Put masking tape on the slide and lock it into a vice, unless you have a sight tool. Use non-marking punches of brass, aluminum or plastic and apply them to the base of the sight, not the upper portion. My secret sauce solution is to lubricate the dovetail. I like sharpening stone oil, but any penetrating oil will do or you can mix some hand dishwashing detergent, like Dawn, with water. Tilt the gun so that lubricant can get beneath the sight, which may or may not happen, and lubricate the dovetail in the direction the sight will move. Work from left to right to remove the sights and install them from right to left.
If a new sight will not go into the dovetail by hand about half way, you should sand the bottom of the sight. An easy way to do this is by placing sand paper on a very flat surface and rubbing the sight back and forth sideways, as it will enter the dovetail, to remove some material. Try it in the dovetail often until it will enter halfway. If not, continue sanding and try again. Eventually, it will fit and you should use the punch to finish. As a novice, you should use very fine grit of 1000 or higher. Go slowly and carefully, making sure the sight bottom is flat on the sand paper.
You should know where the sights should be set. The front sight, which is usually weaker, should be centered and the rear should be set wherever you have determined it should be to have the point of impact where you want it. I do not use thread locking compounds until I am sure the sights are aligned properly. When installed, rinse the sights with water or alcohol to remove the lubricant. I recommend shooting the gun before using the threadlocker. Once you determine the sights are set properly, you can consider some Loctite or something similar. While most use Loctite on the underside of the sights, I prefer to use it on the sides of the dovetail as I think it would be easier to remove later, if needed for adjustment or whatever.
If you think you will want to do this on other pistols, it might make sense to buy a sight pusher. I have one and use it when it fits. These make the process easier, but should be used with caution to avoid scarring the finish. Read the directions. Again, push on the sight bases within the dovetails, not the upper portions of the sights. Be especially careful with the weaker front sight. Make sure the tool part that pushes the sight is free to move the sight and not in line to touch the dovetail. Again, use the lubrication and installation process discussed above. Go slowly and check constantly. There will sometimes be a popping sound when the sight begins to move. This does not indicate a problem.
Others will likely have different opinions and you should consider them. This has always worked for me and I have never damaged anything. If this works for you, please let us know. If this does not work, just forget you ever heard of us. ;^D

[pist]

OK, thank you. I'm looking into sight pushers that might work well. The P500 Pro Universal Sight Tool looks promising, but at ~$270, it's pretty steep.

I'm a neurotic control freak with serious trust issues, so while I haven't ruled out sending it to Kahr, I'd really prefer to do it myself. It would also give me a little sense of accomplishment (as stupid as that may sound).

Do the dovetails get progressively tighter from right-to-left?

[Bawanna]

270 bucks is a lot for something you'll likely use one time.

You can do it following Finpro's directions. I do that nearly precisely although I've never heard of the soap trick.

I also if a lot has to be removed use a fine metal file to drag the sight base across. Then switch to fine paper when I know I'm close. With 1000 grit paper you'll be there for weeks if you have to remove much.
I use a good solid (really solid) vise. A very small hammer and if brass or plastic isn't working I carefully go to steel. Emphasis on the tape. Lots of it. Sometimes the steel just gets it moving.
A bit of tape on the sight base and all around of course and things should be fine.

I've also found that sometimes going half way by hand is too much, I go just a bit less, say between a 1/3rd and the half.

I'll know more soon, I have 42 sets to install on our Glock 21's. Powers that be think our night sights are due to expire and found something they like so going to switch. Beats sitting in front of this computer all day although not my favorite thing. Glocks are easy compared to Kahrs and I do have a pusher I use to remove. I install most of the way with punches and fine tune with the pusher.

[pist]

I'd use it more than once. I have two PM9s, a K9 with burned-out tritium sights, and a Glock.

There are some ~$50 sight tools that look very simple and seem like they'd work. I think I'm more comfortable using one of those than punches.

[Bawanna]

Just remember this. A sight pusher can be compared to a holster with a thumb strap. A poor fitting holster that needs a strap to keep the gun from falling out.
You can take a sight that doesn't fit (IE: it needs to be sanded) and make it fit which can be not a good thing.
I wish you good luck.

And lastly if you ding it up and it shows a few scars, at least they are your scars. Wear them with pride and chalk it up to a learning experience. As we get high miles on the odometer it seems we acquire more and more of those learning experiences.

[pist]

Thanks for the advice.

I think I'll do my wife's PM9 first!

[gb6491]

I'm pretty much on board with what finpro wrote
Off:
I like to spray the dovetail with PB Blaster several hours before removing the sight.
Mount the slide securely in a rigid vise or clamp securely to a solid work surface.
I now eschew the use of a pusher for removing sights (except for tritium sights I going to reuse). I use brass punches. I also make drifts out of brass stock.
I use/make a punch/drift that fits close to the width of the dovetail. I also try to use a flat on the sight, as close to dovetail as possible, as my contact point for the punch/drift. Masking tape is used if I'm going to reuse the sight.


Fit:
I test fit the new sight then remove material from it until I achieve a fit where I can push the new sight just under half way (sometimes less) into a tapered dovetail. For straight dovetails, I fit the sight to just get it started into the dovetail by hand


Install:
I finish the installation with a sight pusher (sometimes a nylon, bamboo, or brass punch covering the sight with masking tape)



Regards,
Greg

[Bawanna]

Wish my sights showed up as well in person and yours do in your photo's.
Thought you had a little rust spot on your slide until it occurred to me it's a witness mark to show you where the old sight was sitting.

Have a fella here that every time I install sights he shows up with his dial caliper to make sure they are perfectly centered. I told him my eye was insured with Lloyds of London for 2.50 and anything happens to my eyes, it 2.50 cash money. Trust the eye.
Didn't help, still shows up with the caliper.

Also reminds me I need to find a couple slabs of Delrin or something to line my vise jaws.

I have some floating jaws with rubber liners that work very well, but not good for sight installs.
Solid is better.

[pist]

The witness mark is brilliant. Thank you. I probably would not have thought of that.

[finpro]

I'd use it more than once. I have two PM9s, a K9 with burned-out tritium sights, and a Glock.

There are some ~$50 sight tools that look very simple and seem like they'd work. I think I'm more comfortable using one of those than punches.

I have installed night sights about 15 times, mostly using a cheap sight pusher. Some of these were on Kahrs and Glocks which have very rectangular slides that accept positioning and tightening better, making it easier for using a sight pusher. (Only Glock's rear sight gets pushed, of course.) A $270 tool is likely better than a cheaper one, but a decent cheap one would do fine on these flat sided pistols. If you do get the super turbo all wheel drive model, please let us know where you live so we can come by and borrow it ;^D
Depending on how your wife feels about her PM9 and the state of your marriage, you may want to do hers last, after you have gotten really practiced and skillful. I would try the Glock first.

[Bawanna]

The witness mark is brilliant. Thank you. I probably would not have thought of that.

I generally place a piece of tape in front of the sight and put the witness mark on the tape.

I've marked the slide a couple times but in moving it around and wrestling with it, I usually wipe the mark off the slide. The tape seems to last and I can use a pencil or pen.

Actually looking at the photo's again I believe Gregs mark is on tape also, the tape doesn't show up to obvious but I can see the end near the sight channel.