Update! PM45 magazines fail & Boomer's going back again! Back home 11 Jan!

[wyntrout]

Thanks, John, that's good to hear. And 500KV, did you see my pictures? They were more than hairline by the time I noticed. Three different models/versions got the same cracks by the same trip to the range. The two 5-rounders that came with the gun, the 6-round extended grip that I got with the gun package, and one of the two 7-round extended grip versions that I got the first week of April. The latter didn't participate in the first 547 rounds I fired, or any of the Kahr CS testing.
If the mags are defective, then it wasn't just one type or batch or one period of time.
They could "inlay" a stout leaf spring into the rear of the mag well that reaches almost to the top of the mags in the rear to help absorb the "recoil" to the top of the magazine, but there's not room for enough plastic back there.
Dang, since I started this, the mail man came, I got an email from my son that I answered, I got a call from Trijicon about paying for my K9 NS re-lamp, and my wife's make-up flight finally got her to her destination... after spending the night in Phoenix, Aircraft delays made her miss her connection yesterday afternoon. She did get to visit with her sister while there.
Uh, where was I? Okay, I'll "publish" this and try to do something else for a few minutes.

Added after the above: I noticed a patrol car sitting in my neighbor's driveway out front. She's out of town, so I grabbed my copy of her key and went to see if I could help (or find out what the problem was). Her alarm went off, we talked, he said everything was secure, and then he stayed and wrote out a ticket(?) or notice to put on her front door. (my trusty P380 was IWB, of course.)
Wynn

[500KV]

And 500KV, did you see my pictures? They were more than hairline by the time I noticed. Three different models/versions got the same cracks by the same trip to the range. Wynn

Yes I saw the pictures of yours wynn.

The two cracks on either side of my CW45 mag are identical but just not quite as advanced as yours.
~ the same # of rounds through both of mine but only one has the cracks.

I do think crash is correct in his theory about the recoil of the round against the unsupported section of the mag.

[wyntrout]

Yeah, that's pretty much what I thought and I added that to the last email to the head of Kahr CS... also my suggestion for a leaf spring, a very stout one, to be added to the top rear of the mag well to push against the top rear of the magazine. The location of that cam that pushes down/up on the safety block doesn't allow for any more polymer, not that I would trust polymer to absorb or help with that recoil from the cartridge base.
I just don't think that was considered or realized in design and testing this super compact .45.
Wynn

[GOOFA]

Wynn... I just wanted to say "Thank You". All the problems that you're having with Kahr indicates to me that you have taken over my old title at Kahr's cust serv dept. Every time I sent something back to them, my ears started to burn and I could just imagine them saying, "another thing back from that old PITA again" but lately my ears haven't been burning me and no voices in my head. Keep up the good work, my good friend.

[O'Dell]

Wyn, I checked my PM45 mags, each with about 375 rounds, and they both have to small gap above the weld, but I wouldn't call it a crack. However the back of the mag hasn't separated like yours. I also checked the CW9 mags and they have the same space.

[wyntrout]

Thanks, GOOFA. It wasn't by choice. Most things can be fixed... eventually, but these 45 magazine failures worry me. If they don't come up with a fix, I'm going to look at reinforcing that top back area of the magazines with JB Weld, or something, though I doubt that would be enough, either. I don't even have one left to play with.

O'Dell, the possible fissure I'm talking about, is parallel to the weld and looks like a fine hairline crack starting... between the weld and the adjacent metal. I couldn't see light though it with a tactical light in a closet, though.

I seem to have one of the highest rounds fired counts, if not THE highest. I did a lot of testing.

When I got my P380 back before the PM45, I forgot to put my inner tube on it AND I forgot my MagLula... that's the only one I could do that with. It's the easiest to load by hand... just slower that way.
A few days later when the PM45 go back, I damn sure remembered the innertube AND the MagLula. I fired over 500 rounds in three trips to the range with the PM45. I thought all was well, and then almost a month later I fired 171 rounds of 45 and had lots of problems... the present ones.
I hope to hear something on it early this week.
Wynn

[jocko]

pretty sure

Wyn, I checked my PM45 mags, each with about 375 rounds, and they both have to small gap above the weld, but I wouldn't call it a crack. However the back of the mag hasn't separated like yours. I also checked the CW9 mags and they have the same space.

they allhave that gap above the weld, all of mine do and they have never moved either...

[wyntrout]

No, it's not that gap. Mine seemed to have a fissure next to the weld and the rest of the metal on the right.
Wynn

[Wilson2008]

Wynn,

I just reached 3500 rounds on my PM45 last week, and one of my 5 round magazines has cracks just like you show only not as far along. The other 5 round mag and my two 7 round mags (carried as spares) don't have any cracking yet. I shoot all of these mags equal amounts at the range, and they've all been dropped on the floor many times during speed reloads.

None of this directly helps your case, but my mags seem to have lasted pretty well compared to some others. This might support your theory that your gun is helping to accelerate the problem? Anyway, it seems to be another wear related issue for the PM45 design.

- Wilson

[wyntrout]

Thanks for the info, Wilson. The Head CS guy at Kahr said he had an idea about the problem, but needed to see the gun. They've had it for a few days now, so I should hear something soon. I figure it must be the gun because of all of the mags failing at one time like that. They hadn't had equal use, but not for my lack of trying. CS used the 5-rounders a lot more.
I told the guy at Kahr that my gun needed exorcism and he said it's all in how you shake the chicken bones.
My PM9 is backup to my P380 now. I love the tiny gun. I can carry it all of the time. I would rather have the firepower of the PM45, but I can shoot the P380 without it jamming from less than a machine rest-like grip. The 45 was real easy to shoot until the LAST visit when it got the replacement for the bad replacement slide. I should have left well enough alone. The new slide was sure pretty, though.
Wynn

[500KV]

This problem is not limited to the PM45's.
One of my CW45 mags has the same cracks, (both corners at the back, top of the mag right behind the follower).
These are identical to the ones shown in Wynn's photos, just not quite as advanced.
The other mag is fine, so far, and none of my others, CW40-PM9 show any signs of the cracks.

I put another 50 rounds through the bad mag yesterday with no visible change and it's functioning properly so I don't know. Just have to keep an eye on it I guess.

[Seahawk60]

Wilson makes Kahr PM mags?

[Bawanna]

Wilson is the poster, post # 24.

[Seahawk60]

Wilson is the poster, post # 24.

No, this is from wyntrout (post #5) differentiating between what sounds like Wilson Combat and Kahr magazines.

It's just really odd that 4 of my 6 Kahr magazines are splitting and one of the others seems to have a possible split alongside the weld on the top back. At about $35 a pop for magazines, that gets pretty expensive. I think I'll have to invest in some Wilson magazines for range use, at least, and save the Kahrs for carry.

[Bawanna]

We found that Wilson magazines work in the PM45's also. They lock back on empty anddo everything like they were meant too.
Many other 1911 mags work but don't lock back.
One fella was even using Detonics magazines for a flush fit.
In a nutshell Wilson don't make kahr mags but in the 45's they work.