Almost have it ....

[bigmacque]

I've almost got it, but I still need some help:

How do you shoot one of these PM9's straight?

I mean, obviously, the bullet goes where the gun is aimed, but I'm still having issues getting this thing under control. I've put 376 rounds through it, including 12 JHP's that I loaded after I thought I was doing better, but I cannot get a group at 7 yards. I'm literally all over the place -- about the only thing I'm consistent on is at least I hit the paper.

I know the shortened site radius is new to me, as is the smallish grip -- I've loaded the 7rnd mag a few times, but I'm specifically trying to gain proficiency with the 6rnd mag -- and the only other thing I can attribute my lack of grouping to is the DA. I have a Springfield Armory .45, the GI.45 Micro Compact, and a HK .45, a USP C, and can place shots anywhere I want with those two weapons. I also have a S&W Sigma 9mm that sometimes gives me trouble -- the common denominator obviously between the S&W and my new l'il buddy is the DA.

Snap caps and more practice will be on the agenda, but I'm open to any and all suggestions. I really like this gun, and really want to carry it, but really need to be better with it before I can do that.

Anybody else have any trouble getting used to the PM9?

[Bawanna]

All you can do is focus on the basics. I'd start even closer than 7 yards, even 3 or 4. It's a huge transition from a 1911 or any single action to the Kahr 1/4 mile but smooth trigger. Up close will help exagerate your mistakes. Let someone else shoot it to confirm it you and not the gun but I'm doubtful its the gun although everyone always blames the gun. It's a credit to your integrity to admit that your playing a part in all this.
As you said the snap caps, and more trigger time. Dryfiring can help and save some ammo. Some people here are darn good shots with them and some not so go but good enough. It'll come, don't give up.

[jreXD9]

smoooooth trigger pull all the way through bang, don't anticipate and flinch.

[O'Dell]

I've almost got it, but I still need some help:

How do you shoot one of these PM9's straight?

I mean, obviously, the bullet goes where the gun is aimed, but I'm still having issues getting this thing under control. I've put 376 rounds through it, including 12 JHP's that I loaded after I thought I was doing better, but I cannot get a group at 7 yards. I'm literally all over the place -- about the only thing I'm consistent on is at least I hit the paper.

I know the shortened site radius is new to me, as is the smallish grip -- I've loaded the 7rnd mag a few times, but I'm specifically trying to gain proficiency with the 6rnd mag -- and the only other thing I can attribute my lack of grouping to is the DA. I have a Springfield Armory .45, the GI.45 Micro Compact, and a HK .45, a USP C, and can place shots anywhere I want with those two weapons. I also have a S&W Sigma 9mm that sometimes gives me trouble -- the common denominator obviously between the S&W and my new l'il buddy is the DA.

Snap caps and more practice will be on the agenda, but I'm open to any and all suggestions. I really like this gun, and really want to carry it, but really need to be better with it before I can do that.

Anybody else have any trouble getting used to the PM9?

I have a PM45 and have pretty well mastered that, but i plan on getting a PM9 soon to replace a stolen CW9. I've only shot a PM9 once and the "pinky dangle" bothered me a lot. I have a feeling I'll be in the same position in a couple of weeks trying to get on top of shooting the thing.

On another note how do you like the HK USP c 45? I've bought four new 45's in the last two weeks to build back my collection, and that pistol is one of them. I've only shot two of them due to time constraints getting to the range, and the HK is one I haven't tried yet. If it shoots as well as it looks and feels, it should be a winner.

[bigmacque]

Oh I admit it's all me, I know the gun is working fine -- and I appreciate the advice bwanna, I did just that yesterday at the range, had one of the range guys fire it. He had a little bit of sway, but by and large he hit things fairly accurately, so I know the problem is all me.

I think it's a combination of things: the shortened site radius, as this is my first pistol this size -- the Springfield and the HK are both just a bit longer in the barrel -- the smallish grip, both my Springfield and my HK are just long enough to get my whole hand around, and the light pistol shooting a fairly heavy round, 124 grains.

All in all, it's just a matter of practice, practice, practice.

As for my HK O'Dell, I love it. Very smooth shooter. I bought it used, it had probably 400 rounds through it when I bought it, and now easily has double that. It was the duty gun of a cop friend of mine, and he sold it to me for a great price, so I couldn't resist, and I've been extremely happy with that gun. That HK is the first gun that I've ever picked up and put a hole perfectly in the center of the target on the very first pull of the trigger.

[OldLincoln]

I know you are experienced but I suggest you try using a bench rest of some sort and lock the gun hard in your grip. Take your time and see what happens. The PM9 needs a firm handler, no coaxing, you gotta really strangle the sucker with both hands.

I always shoot better on my mags 2-4 then the others. My hands get tired and I have to focus a lot on grip or I find the gun taking my hands up and to the right on recoil. A firm grip and it is manageable.

[wyntrout]

The PM9 was my first DAO gun(this past January) and I kind of gave up on it. I know I was doing things wrong. After I got the PM45, I took to it right away and loved it. The same with the P380 about a month later. I finally went back to the PM9 and I could shoot it better, too.
If I take my time and do everything correctly, the POI will be the POA, but I get in a hurry and start doing bad things, so the bullets get sprinkled about, but most go COM. This "technique" only gets me MAYBE 50% on the pie plate at 15 yards. I just can't slow down and try to "aim" each shot. I don't figure I'll have that luxury in a gunfight and I do a lot of pointing with the sights lined up. As the barrel approaches the aiming point on recovery from recoil, I start squeezing the trigger to fire as it crosses the aiming point... no tiny groups for me and 15 yards has become long-range as I've aged and my eyesight is not as good.
<<That's my excuse and I'm sticking to it>>

Wynn

[jocko]

I don't

I've almost got it, but I still need some help:

How do you shoot one of these PM9's straight?

I mean, obviously, the bullet goes where the gun is aimed, but I'm still having issues getting this thing under control. I've put 376 rounds through it, including 12 JHP's that I loaded after I thought I was doing better, but I cannot get a group at 7 yards. I'm literally all over the place -- about the only thing I'm consistent on is at least I hit the paper.

I know the shortened site radius is new to me, as is the smallish grip -- I've loaded the 7rnd mag a few times, but I'm specifically trying to gain proficiency with the 6rnd mag -- and the only other thing I can attribute my lack of grouping to is the DA. I have a Springfield Armory .45, the GI.45 Micro Compact, and a HK .45, a USP C, and can place shots anywhere I want with those two weapons. I also have a S&W Sigma 9mm that sometimes gives me trouble -- the common denominator obviously between the S&W and my new l'il buddy is the DA.

Snap caps and more practice will be on the agenda, but I'm open to any and all suggestions. I really like this gun, and really want to carry it, but really need to be better with it before I can do that.

Anybody else have any trouble getting used to the PM9?

I don't want to bust your bubble but I have over 30,000 rounds out of my PM9, the best little pocket rocket I have ever had. That being said, I shoot it horribly, just horribly, compared to my G19 and even my P380 I can out shoot my PM9. It is not the short sight radius, it is for me two things. A very looooong but oh so smooth trigger and the fact that I am just a piss poor shot with a gun that requires some diligence. They ain't 1911 sytle single actions. try shooting a J frame double action and then single action and examine the groups. There is a reason for everything..

If you practice more and shoot close 7 yards and under, you will get good but based on my results, don't expect one hole accuracy, for me at 7 yards a 4" group is OK, For that is about the best I can do. I practice the way I carry, so I don't use a rest or sandbag or extended grip to give a different hand feel. I am happy with my results, hell I better be, that is alot of rounds to be no better. I do't shoot my K9 much beter but it is better. I do shoot my P380 better at 7 yards than my PM9, so figure that fooking sh-it out and let me know.

I have always said kahrs are not the easiest guns to shoot dead nuts accurate but again I know to it is not the gun. Some of you guys on this forum have proven that but I do think the vast majoriity are in my boat to. Some maybe won't admit it, some maybe still working on getting better, for me after 30,000 rounds, I can now see the light at the end of the tunnel.

Personally I think you doing great, accept the PM9 or for that matter most all kahrs for what they were designed for. Close up and personal defense guns with a great safety system and outstanding reliability..

If I want to hit beer cans at 25 yards, my kahrs would be my last choice..

How many times have we heard of another shooter saying " I used to have such and such but peddled it as it just didn't shoot well for me?"

[dusty10]

I am by no means as experienced a shooter as the previous posters but no one mentioned possibly adding the pierce grip extension to your PM9 mags. This should get you pinky back on the grip. Might help. Don't know how it will impact concealability though. Just a thought.

[kahrseye]

I took a friend of mine to the range about two weeks ago. Against my advice he purchased a Sig P238 (.380). His loss.....I digress. Anyway he's shooting this gun and he's all over the place. So I taught him a technique I learned a long time ago. It's called the Push Pull Technique. If you're right handed, you take your normal 2 handed shooting stance and push with your right hand and at the same time with equal pressure you pull back your right hand with your left. It automatically stablizes the gun. It's easy to master and will definitely help your shooting. You can practice the technique before you go to the range. If this is too elementary I apologize but it has helped me become alot better shot.

[Bawanna]

I took a friend of mine to the range about two weeks ago. Against my advice he purchased a Sig P238 (.380). His loss.....I digress. Anyway he's shooting this gun and he's all over the place. So I taught him a technique I learned a long time ago. It's called the Push Pull Technique. If you're right handed, you take your normal 2 handed shooting stance and push with your right hand and at the same time with equal pressure you pull back your right hand with your left. It automatically stablizes the gun. It's easy to master and will definitely help your shooting. You can practice the technique before you go to the range. If this is too elementary I apologize but it has helped me become alot better shot.

I use your method we shall henceforth call the "Kahrseye Isometric
Stance" all the time and it's usually the first thing I explain when I find an unsuspecting new shooter to help. It steadys you right down when you got the shakes, too much coffee or not enough to eat prior to range time.
It works elementary or not.

[yqtszhj]

It's called the Push Pull Technique. If you're right handed, you take your normal 2 handed shooting stance and push with your right hand and at the same time with equal pressure you pull back your right hand with your left. It automatically stablizes the gun.

This technique works well. I use this when I 2 hand shoot and I can even shoot a LCP pretty decent that way. With my CW9 it's even better at 25 yards.

[Jeremiah/Az]

I practice by dry firing at home. Make sure your gun is EMPTY of course. Pick out a light switch or something fairly small. Align yor sights on it & squeeze the trigger slowly & try to never let the sights come off the object 'til you hear the click of the firing pin. You will get better with practice.

[bigmacque]

Nice thread ... I really appreciate the input, all of it.

I will get better with it, just because I'm too damn stubborn not to. The push-pull is something that I've heard of, and somewhat tried, but not really practiced -- I'm adding that to the agenda.

Thanks again, everyone, this turned into a nice thread.

[olympicmotorcars]

I am just a passable shot with my PM 40 also. I do not shoot it nearly as well as my Glock 27, although I havent had it as long either. I recently changed ranges , my old range just went out to 7 yards, my new one is 10 yards and really amplifies my mistakes. I think sight picture with me is very critical, and I am still threatening to send my slide in to Karh and get a set of meprolights put on it. I am not going to embarrass myself by disclosing my group sizes but I am sure most of you out shoot me pretty handily. Having said that, we have to always remember why we bought these ultra concealable weapons in the first place, we never have an excuse to be unarmed again. I believe I can adequately protect myself and my family with it if called to do so. I continue to be thrilled with my PM and would not trade it for 10 Glocks.