PM series redesign ?

[tomwalshco]

Has there been a redesign of the PMs? Did I miss something?

Saw earlier thread about a recoil spring assembly that notes this, but was called beveled there. I would call it a slide undercut.

Had to go to Gun Broker to find pic of newer, Kahr sight shows old style, flat nose. What gives? Also, Kahr now shows 3.14" barrel, positive it used to be 3.0"

Saw mention of new recoil spring as larger. Did they mean longer, not larger?

What gives? Anybody know the serial # breakpoint of the new vs old? No guessing, please.

Saw a lot of maybes, probablys. looks like it, in other thread. Have seen no mention of this on Kahr site, this site or at Glock/Kahr site. Could be a lot of parts questions in future - old style vs new style.

Any Kahr people hang out here?

Pics are PM45 new (Gun Broker) top - old (Kahr page) bottom:

[jocko]

yup, they lengthened the slide/barrel/recoil rod on the beveled front models on all PM models.

The kahr webb sight in the parts area will show one how to see what they have in the recoil rod length by counting the coils. 13 coils is the old style flat nose. 15 coils is the new style beveled/undercut. Makes the gun about 1+ ounce heavier all total to.. I have asked about the serial # break off and was told, that if the slide is beveled/undercut, it will require the new parts listed on the webb sight. Flat/bunt noxe parts will stay the same. Why did they do such a thing??? Makes no sense, they just made a very small lightweight gun bigger and heavier, not to say really screwed up people with ordering parts etc, as we have seen this already on this forum with people having the old style (blunt nose, glock style) slide and ordering recoil springs and getting the longer version, which will not work...

HUMM, I guess they ight call what they did "progress"..

[tomwalshco]

I personally don't care, but someone who really likes the look of the undercut slide and ordered one from Bud's or others on the net, and got a flat-nosed would be pissed.

Somewhere down the line it will effect resale value, too.

Serial # might be the only differentiator. Curious why Kahr hasn't updated their pics. PM45 only? Wonder if CM models willl be undercut?

[Colt41]

The main problem here is the lack of communication in the transfer of design. Even the new CM9 pdf advertisement list the physical specs of the old style PM9 when it clearly resembles the overall dimensions of the new undercut style.

If it was just a matter of aesthetics then I don't think it would be a problem, but since dimensions and part specs have changed as well it seems to be confusing a lot of people. It would probably make life easier on customers and on Kahr if they just published the correct information and posted updated photos, specs, etc.

[jocko]

I have

I personally don't care, but someone who really likes the look of the undercut slide and ordered one from Bud's or others on the net, and got a flat-nosed would be pissed.

Somewhere down the line it will effect resale value, too.

Serial # might be the only differentiator. Curious why Kahr hasn't updated their pics. PM45 only? Wonder if CM models willl be undercut?

no doubt the new cm9 will have the new slide. The blunt nose/glock style is now history, surely there are new ones still on dealers shelves to be sold but kahr is not making the "old style" slide. if one has his heart set on the new style and was ordering it on line etc, I would sure ask in advance about the slide etc. Not sure it will effect resale value, not like the change made it work better, some people like me would want the blunt nose one over the undercut one. Probably 95% of new buyers as of now don't even know of two styles PM9's floating around out there. Gonna be thousands of used PM9 blunt style being sold, as kahr problalby has a couple hundred thousand of those guns in owners hands and some will get traded etc or sold on line. Maybe for awhile kahr will have the old style replacement slides to replace warrantied old sytle slides but down the road,,, one is going to get the new style replacement. Kahr did some of that when they had to replace carbon steel frames/slides. They didn't have any so most got a compelte new gun of stainless.

One can look at glocks "sub compact" and compared to the regular glock slides which are blunt nose, these subs and undercut/beveled, not nothing like kahrs are but also glock made ano demensional changes in either guns.

I would have thought kahr could have done the same thing.

[jocko]

colt 41: and hopefully kahr will realize thier webb site it still very confusing and needs to be corrected.. they show the new cm9 with the beveled slide nose but if you hit on the PM9 section the only picture that pops up os the old style blunt nose. Makes zero sense, for if that is what you want your not gonna get it.

[DKD]

New PM45 desihn

I am sure JOCKO or BAWANNA know the answer to this question...How can you tell if your PM45 is the new versionor the old version?
I got mine last spring around May/June 2010. Mine has a chiseled or beveled slide at the nose. Is the recoil spring longer, if so how many coils from the original...? Is it like the difference in coil count to the PM9's?
thanks for the input.

[jocko]

measure the recoil rod only. Old style will measure 2 3/8". New style will measure 2 1/2 I have no idea of the recoil springs of either are different lenghts, as 1/8" is not alot ans as near as I can figure, kahrs shows two different recoil rod lekngths but only one recoil spring. . They don't say anything about coil count for the PM45 like they do for the PM9 and PM40 which use exactly the same recoil assembly.". But if I had to bet they are different coil count, and maybe that is why kahr willonly sell the entire recoil assembly as one unit instead of how they used to just sell the outter recoil spring. Oh yes very confusing and I kinda study this stuff alittle, so consider the new guy who hasn't a clue yet..

[Colt41]

colt 41: and hopefully kahr will realize thier webb site it still very confusing and needs to be corrected.. they show the new cm9 with the beveled slide nose but if you hit on the PM9 section the only picture that pops up os the old style blunt nose. Makes zero sense, for if that is what you want your not gonna get it.

Not only that, but the only place on their website that shows a picture of the new undercut PM9 design is in the comparison section on the advertisement for the CM9. However, even in that advertisement (with pictures of both new PM9 and CM9) they list the specs of the old blunt style PM9! Confusing indeed.

[Southern Guy]

This is already causing problems in the parts dept. I ordered a couple of new recoil springs for my PM45 a few days ago. When I saw the old style and new style options I measured the recoil rod like they said and figured out I had the old style.

When I got the springs I noticed the new one looked a good bit longer. So I checked the invoice to be sure I ordered/got the right thing and then I compared the recoil rods and they were the same, if didn't occur to me count the coils . So I went on and installed one of the new recoil rods and spring. It did go in but it wouldn't allow the slide to go far enough back to catch the slide release. I took it apart and counted the coils, sure enough it has a couple extra coils.

So now I'm on the net figuring out what has happened, I guess I got the right rods but the wrong springs. I'll call then tomorrow and hopefully get things straightened out. I'm not into cutting springs in a carry gun.

A friend of bought a new PM40 last week, he's supposed to come over in the next couple days and let me play with it. I can't wait to see if he got the old or new style.

[tomwalshco]

.....I'm not into cutting springs in a carry gun....

PITA I realize, and you can't just cut those with a pair of side cutters (dikes) or you'll end up with a notch in the cutting edge. You'll have to pick the right spot and hit it with a stone wheel grinder or stone dremel bit.

Extra coils = extra length when compressed, which means not enough space for the slide to move fully to the rear position. Jam-o-matic or worse.

Somebody is asleep at the switch back in Worcester. When you order new sights, you have to choose between "old style" slide or "new style". They should have the same options for the springs.

[Ninjatarian]

I had the older style PM40 and when I sent it back for repair, they put on all the new style parts. The frame however is different on the newer ones too. If you look at the butt, the older style is pretyy flat and almost looks just chopped off. The newer style is molded more rounded especially at the bottom of the backstrap. The polymer seams hearder too.

[tomwalshco]

Is e very onne comming down wit jocko disease around hear?

[jocko]

they do

PITA I realize, and you can't just cut those with a pair of side cutters (dikes) or you'll end up with a notch in the cutting edge. You'll have to pick the right spot and hit it with a stone wheel grinder or stone dremel bit.

Extra coils = extra length when compressed, which means not enough space for the slide to move fully to the rear position. Jam-o-matic or worse.

Somebody is asleep at the switch back in Worcester. When you order new sights, you have to choose between "old style" slide or "new style". They should have the same options for the springs.

now, in the kahr parts lists they show what to look for in ordering springs. Sad thing is that now though, you must order the entire recoil assembly which is $24 and that is a rip off , as all that one needs is the outter springs which theyused to sell that way but now have change. I ask about it and got a crapola answer tha tI won't even post on here. Now if you have the new style slide , for right now, you must order all recoils springs from kahr as wolffs as of now does not make springs for the new srtule slide. I have writtent o woffs about this to see what their intentions are going to be also. They are very slwo to come out with new springs, but I would think they would want to be on top of this PM9 and pM40 change. I told them also they now need to put a note in their site showing the springs for the PM9 and PM40 as being on the old style slides. I am sure they don't know what the hell I am talking about either..

[jocko]

Ok the cure

Is e very onne comming down wit jocko disease around hear?

6 beers in one hour and the disease seems to subside