PM45 jams with NEW recoil spring???

[Southern Guy]

A little history first.

I bought the gun and the day I bought it I put 250+ rounds through it. It did jam one time on round #39. Before last week it had never jammed with me shooting it again. Right after "break in" every time my wife shot it, it jammed (ftf) and I mean every time, every single shot. After a few hundred more rounds probably 3-400 additional, it just stopped. It never jammed with her or anybody else.......Obviously "limp wristing"

Well fast forward another 500+ rounds. I have been told KAHR recommends a recoil spring change every 1,000 rounds so I order a couple up and after I figure out I have to trim them I get one installed. I go out shooting and after 20-30 rounds a ftf. Well I kept on shooting and it didn't happen again. It is also now jamming with my wife again. Sound familiar?

Then the other day a buddy of mine came over with his new PM40 and we had a shoot out. Well it (my PM45) jammed with him, twice. He shot several more mags through it after that with what he called a "tighter grip" and had no more problems. I will also add he has shot my PM45 many times before and never had a problem, in fact he liked it so much he bought it's little brother, the PM40.

So my question is how in the world can a new recoil spring make a gun less reliable? Is this common?

Either way I'm not to terrible worried about it because when it's my hands it is as reliable as it can be.....now that I have put another 150 or so rounds through it after the last failure. I have shot it holding as loosely as I feel I can do safely, I have shot it rapidly one handed. I haven't been able to make it jam again....go figure.

[jocko]

undoubtely it is shooter error, but you should not have to trim your recoil springs if you have the right ones. Did you just get the outter recoil springs from kahr?. The way to order new springs for your PM45 which could be the new slide version or the old slide version is to measure the lenght of the recoil rod itself. if it measures 2 3/8" it is the old style and u should order that way, If it measures 2 1/2"IT IS THE NEW STYLE AND U SHOULD ORDER THATR WAY. You should not be trimming recoil springs.
Obviously u need to call kahr when ordering these springs and letting them know what recoil rod you have in ur gun. Ihave been told that now kahr only sells the entire recoils assembly which is around $24.

Not true on the kahr tale about 1000 rounds. U should be good to go for at least 2000+ rounds. If you can just get the outter recoil springs then one can change earlier due to little cost involved but at $24 a clip, I would go at least 2000-2500 rounds..

[Southern Guy]

I measured the rod and ordered the "old style" recoil spring assembly. The rod is the correct length, although the inter spring appears to slightly bigger,
my eyes could just be fooling me. I suppose it's possible they sent me a old style rod and inner spring but new style outer spring.

I agree I shouldn't be clipping a recoil spring but from what what I understand the only outer spring they sell is the new style, they tell you to clip off a 1/2 round until the slide will lock back. I clipped in 1/4's and it took 1 1/4 rounds before the slide would lock back.

I also agree it is shooter error but the thing is that the only time the shooters error matters enough to make the gun jam is when a new recoil spring is in.

It is good to know that I can go 2000+ rounds without a spring change to, I can't remember where I heard the 1,000 round thing.
I just figured better safe than sorry.



You probably want remember it, but YOU are the guy that turned me on to the PM45 a couple years ago on THR. I was looking for a small 45 asking for suggestions....Thanks, I love this little gun.

[pappy42]

When I ordered a new recoil assbly for my PM45; I first received the the "new style". They (KAHR) then sent me the correct old style that my pistol requires. It came with the same outer spring as the new style (15 coils). I had to trim it to 14 coils before I got slide lock back.

[jocko]

I find that totally ridiculous that kahr would send an outter recoil spring that is to long. It just is unheade of to tell anyoine to do that let alone to not even tell them and they have issues and not know that it is because the recoil spring is to long. That just makes zero sense to me that they would do that and I will check into to see if that is still being done today.. and get back with the forum to.

Here is the answer from my kahr man: Good afternoon. Thank you for the email. Bob was a great boss and he is
missed. The new and old style outer recoil springs have the exact same coil
count. The reason people are perceiving that the new assemblies are longer
is because their old assembly is compressed and the new assembly is
uncompressed. I have spoken to the web shop supervisor and the recoil
assemblies are sold as an assembly only and not as individual parts. I hope
this information helps you and others.


hope this clears some stuff up.. NO SHORTENING --PERIOD.

[pappy42]

I find that totally ridiculous that kahr would send an outter recoil spring that is to long. It just is unheade of to tell anyoine to do that let alone to not even tell them and they have issues and not know that it is because the recoil spring is to long. That just makes zero sense to me that they would do that and I will check into to see if that is still being done today.. and get back with the forum to.

Here is the answer from my kahr man: Good afternoon. Thank you for the email. Bob was a great boss and he is
missed. The new and old style outer recoil springs have the exact same coil
count. The reason people are perceiving that the new assemblies are longer
is because their old assembly is compressed and the new assembly is
uncompressed. I have spoken to the web shop supervisor and the recoil
assemblies are sold as an assembly only and not as individual parts. I hope
this information helps you and others.


hope this clears some stuff up.. NO SHORTENING --PERIOD.

This old boy is full off beans, Jocko, or they have changed something since I got mine about a month ago. With the full 15 coil spring that mine was sent with; I could'nt get the slide to lock or far enough back to chamber a round.

As you know; I'm no pilgrim when it comes to handguns. There is something here to get to the bottom of. The old spring was 13 coils as you have correctly stated many times and the new one was 15 coils. The 15 coil spring achieved coil bind in my PM45 before lock back.

I appreciate you taking an interest in this and pursuing it. Maybe they got a batch of out of spec springs or my pistol is out of spec; but it wouldn't function with the 15 coil spring. If Kahr stands behind this man's statement; I'm going to request a new spring and or assbly, because I don't want to carry a non factory spec pistol.

[jocko]

no no my coil count was with te PM40 and PM9 old vs new style. I ave no lue as to the PMJ45 what the old vs new coil count was, I never had one ... I can only repeat what was sent to me and this gun is one of our kahr cs people we normally converse with.

I gess my point and also not having the old vs the new in front of me with the PM45, they only lenghtened the recoil rod of the new vs the old style PM45 1/8". I would thinbk this would not demand a longer recoil spring . Now if a fella has the new recoil assembly in the old style PM45slide, the front of that recoil rod HAS to be sticking out the front of that slide. Pappy 42, u know I am not arguing here either but I sure would like for the older version PM45 guys to count their coil and the new PM45 guys to count their coils and we should be able to tell if thereis any difference. It will be in the coil count as the spring diameters have not changed.

Help us out here PM45 old and new style owners. count um and get back with us..

[Bawanna]

My PM45 has 13 coils if I start on the breech end where the spring meets the first wrap, that is 1 to the end of the muzzle end of the spring. 13.

[jocko]

andu have what the old or new style slide?? If in doubt measure the captive 2 3/8"old style 2 1/2" new style

[Bawanna]

andu have what the old or new style slide?? If in doubt measure the captive 2 3/8"old style 2 1/2" new style

You want me to tear this thing apart twice at my desk in a civilian gun free zone here at the PD?

OK, give me a few more minutes, I think it's the old style but I'll take it apart once more and measure my captives. Maybe give em a few lashes while I'm at it. Gotta go get a cup of Bawanna (joe) first, got the makings of an advil moment, must be low on caffeine.
Wonder why they never call it a cup a Dave, or Mark, or Sigfreid.

[jocko]

well we can't read what little mind u have great one,so we need to know if you have the old vs new style slide.

surely u can tell the difference in
2 3/8" vs 2 1/2"???????If not ask wyn,he will guide u if he is still not lowes picking out tile????

[Bawanna]

well we can't read what little mind u have great one,so we need to know if you have the old vs new style slide.

surely u can tell the difference in
2 3/8" vs 2 1/2"???????If not ask wyn,he will guide u if he is still not lowes picking out tile????

Ok, your immenseness, I snuck her apart and used my measuring stick and she's 2 3/8" right on the smackeroo.

I pity that poor Wyn, I hate tile and of course my wife wants a little patch of it. Did I tell ya I hate tile!

[jocko]

ok now we need the new styl;e 2 1/2" RECOIL assembly, outter recoil spring coil count....

sure would be super if we could see a photo side by side..

[Bawanna]

I think I got this figured out. Maybe they aren't too good with fractions and them little marks on the ruler between the big marks so they just made them a little bigger so they match the bigger marks on the ruler. Glad they didn't make em a full 3" so they would only have to look at the really big marks.

I hung drywall with a guy, he was calling out measurements to me with stuff like 52 and 13 of the little bitty marks, or 64 and 11 of the not so little marks. Never did get him able to read a tape measure. One of my lifes failures.

[jocko]

I have since fired back a email to my kahr person and told him of the difference in coil count and how this can be when he is telling me they are all the same coil count.

I think pappa 42 and bawanna know how to count to. again giving ALOT OF CREDIT to bawanna in that field, I know but he can't boff 2 coils l;ess and Pappy 42 also can't be off two coils more..

ok, got a quick reply back:


Good afternoon. Thank you for the reply email I have personally taken two
(old and new style) recoil assemblies out and compared them. They are the
exact same coil count. I am unsure as to how or why people have received
recoil assemblies with varying coil counts but I can tell you that the old
and new style have the same counts. If anyone does have any issues with
their recoil assemblies please have them call our customer service line and
we will be happy to assist them in any way that we can. I hope this
information is helpful



now if I was pappy, I would send that damn 15 coil spring assembly back and ask what the heh is going on. It seems if they don't have the sucker in thier hands, they are going to stick to their story

I have wrote back and ask what their coil count in on the PM45 springs...

oki, got this back:

Good afternoon. I have counted both new and old and they are 14 coils.
sincerely,