New to Kahrtalk not new to Kahr, PM40 issues

[Nickso]

Hello all, have read many posts and everyone seems quite knowledgeable and pleasant, great job !

I have had a PM40 for a little over 5 years and during the first year I dealt with a lot of failures in which about every mag would fail on the 3 rd round. The failure is the spent casing that should have been ejected was not and was jammed up against the ramp.
It did not matter if the mag was full or not, about the 3rd round would do thiis

I tried all kinds of combos of different mags, about 6 different types of ammo, different shooters, different grips, different pressure on my grips, super clean, super dirty, no lube, moderate lube, heavy lube and different types of lube.

I have about 300 rounds through the weapon.

Due to some tough years after my job was sent to India, health issues and moving I have not been able to work on this issue myself or with Kahr. To say the least, I do not trust or carry the weapon, but would love to correct and trust it.

With the info about, does this give any type of hint to the issue ?

What could I do myself ?

Would Kahr help me since it has been over 5 years ?

Thanks in advance your input and have a great weekend!!

[jmb_nova]

I see you have tried a few things... Just a few questions.

Is the ramp polished?

Have you tried a new recoil spring?

Those would be two additional things I would think about that didnt show up on your 'already tried' list...

Hope that can help.

[Nickso]

I see you have tried a few things... Just a few questions.

Is the ramp polished?

Have you tried a new recoil spring?

Those would be two additional things I would think about that didnt show up on your 'already tried' list...

Hope that can help.

No and no.

Hopefully Kahr will help me out here.

Thanks for the info !

[jmb_nova]

No and no.

Hopefully Kahr will help me out here.

Thanks for the info !

No worries... Just a few thoughts to help out.

Id give them a call and see what they have to say; cant hurt.

[Nickso]

Anyone else have any thoughts ?

I don't think it would be the ramp since everything feeds fine.
It's either the spring or something slowing the slide down.

[jocko]

probably not on the warranty thing, but you can't loose anything by calling them and stating your issues. I would not tell them anything about the age of the gun unless they ask you. If they ask for the serial#, that will give them a date going back over 5 years, but they might not ask anything.

To me it sounds like it could be in the magazine with this 3rd round thing. Check to see if that follower is not hitting the magazine release button, about that 3rd round area is where the follower is getting close or right in where that magazine cut out is for the magazine release button to go. It could be the follower is getting stuck a tad right there and causing this issue. Take the magazine apart and look at that follower closely and see if that follower looks like it is marked on that one side. To test to see if it is hitting that magazine release rub some crayon on that side or some thing that will show a mark if it is hitting the magazine release. Being you have tested a half dozen magazines and they all seem to hang up around that 3rd round, ur magazine release button could be way out of spec (to large) and going into that magazine cut out to far.

Kahr, if you call them and present what you told to us, will more than likely send you a new magazine release button to try out before sending it back to them. Or if what I stated above is correct, u can file back a tad on that release button to give it clearance when the magazin is inserted and the follower is allowed to glide past it unrestricted.

IMO it has to be in the magazines??? or the magazaine release button???? My bet it is the mag button.. A recoil spring sitting in that gun for over 5 years, would also indicate getting a new recoil spring just to b eon the safe side. Now I can tell from the age of your PM that it is the blunt nose version and you can go to wolfs gunsprings and order just the outter replace ment spring for that gun, and I would advise ordering the 20.5# recoil spring for it, as ur gun comes with the standard 18# factory spring in it. That extra poundage really helps slide return and feeding to. Kahr will not sell just the outter recoil spring, so your talking about $24 plus postage for anew recoil assembly from kahr and all u need is the outter spring.

One more thing to check being your gun is 5 years old, You might have the old style recoil assembly in the gun to. Look at that flat washer on your recoil assembly that goes up against the barrel lug. Measure it. It if is 3/8" across, you need to have call kahr and order the new recoil assembly which will have a 1/2" flat washer .They made a change around that era for reasons I was told of some feeding issues.. Also if you call kahr you need to tell them you need the 13 coils recoil assembly (which is the old style blunt nose slides). I probably have confused the hell out of you to with all of this but enguly what I said slowly, I still would IMO order the 20.5# outter recoil spring from wolffs to install on your new recoil assembly if u have to order one ..

[Nickso]

JockO, thanks for the detailed reply, I will look at this tomorrow and see if I see any marring. I never suspected a magazine, but what you say about the button makes sense.
Your post was clear, I'll see what Kahr will do for me, I sent them an email today. I will also check the washer.

I always suspected that the slide was not coming back all the way or fast enough for the spent shell to exit before it was rammed back into the ramp, so not sure if a stronger recoil spring will help, but it is at least something else to test that does not cost that much.

I'll post my findings and what Kahr does for me.

Again, thanks for the help.

[Nickso]

+1 . . . for Jocko's analysis of your pistol.

My PM40 magazine catch was hitting the side of the follower in the magazine, just as Jocko described, with the expected nose dive by the third round.

Fortunately, Jocko (or possibly someone else) described the problem some time ago. So, armed with that knowledge, I took the magazine apart and sanded the side of the follower to gain some added clearance.

If you look, you will probably see a bit of relief molded into the follower. Rather than mess with the catch, I just made the relief on the follower a little deeper. It works for me. Followers are cheap, just like me. Your mileage may vary . . .

So you have done this to all of your mags?

Thanks for the reply, nice to know that this sounds like the same issue you were having as well.

I've got multiple things to look at.

[jocko]

Indeed try sanding the follower first. leave the mag catch alone if possable, what tucsonb MTB did is the proper way to START the process of fixing your gun right. New followers from kahr will not help IMO, but I sure would call them and ask for a new magazine catch though. Sometimes just sandng the followers on the right side will solve the issue being caused by the mag catch. this is a fixable thing and the gun does not need to go back to kahr at all. this forum can lead you through it all and there is a nice thread (somewhere with photos) showing how to take that magazine catch out. It is a no brainer and might take 2 minutes of your time . search it up on this forum or some of the guys here can direct you to it.

[jocko]

NICKSO;

for replcement recoil spring.s GUNSPRINGS.COM


while your ordering you might as well order a 3 pak of thier 5% extra magazine strength springs. They sure ar enice and jus thelp push that slide stop lever up easier. No harder to load the magazines IMO. If u have doubts about maybe going to the 20.5# recoil spirng for your kahr, then order them both, the 18 and 20.5#. IMO the 40 cals shold definitely have the 20.5# spring in them and if you notice the 9 mm and 40 cal both use the same springs in poundage, so for me anyhow it just makes sense to have the 20.5 in your kahr, I shoot it in m y PM9 and love it. It willgive no issues and will work the slide better in return to battery to.

[Nickso]

Well, I don't see any marring in my mags (took them apart)

The "washer" at the end of my recoil assy is 1/2".

I have never had a FTF, they are all FTE, the spent casing does fully eject and gets racked into the ramp again over the top of the next round in the mag.
The spent shell is crimped on the end from being rammed into the ramp.

Another strange thing is my serial # is WB10xx
The only date info I can find on this is that it puts the date in 2007, but I made the purchase years before 2007.

[jocko]

if it was made around07, it should have that new style recoil. another thing to look at and test out really easy is

take the slide off the gun, load a complete magazine up and insert it in the lower portion, With the slide off the gun, with a kinfe blade or something thin, move each round forward like it was actually loading and watch how each round rises in the magazine, so if u can see a slight glitch around round 3 like your having..

Your issue IMO just has to be in the magazine, as that is the only constant that is not changing. The gun can't count, so there has to be a constant causing it. The crimped on the end is actually the casing hitting the ejection port upon ejection which in the manul kahrs says is normal.

You would not have to see marring to have what is causing it to cause it.. U can also with the slide off the gun and an empty magazine slowly push down that follower till it reaches that magazine opening where the magazine release button goes into and see if you feel any different pressure as it rides past that magazine button.

[Nickso]

Thanks again jocko !

The crimping I am talking about is not the primer or but end of the spent shell, but the open end of the shell.

I'm confused, not questioning you, on how magazine issues could cause FTE issues.
It's like the spent round does not have time to get out of the way before the slide comes back again.

I have always had this question,
With the slide off, butt of frame towards you, looking down...... Is it normal for the left center of the frame to look as if it bows inward and the Ejector not parallel to the rails, but pointing the the right some ?

[Nickso]

Here is a photo of the left side of my frame against a straight edge.

[Nickso]

Also, should any of my empty mags fall out on their own when I eject them?

Mine don't, just wondering.