Excessive Mag Problems with PM9 & CM9?

[JFootin]

Hi, y'all. I am new to the forum, awaiting delivery of a new CM9. I spent a while reading threads on this forum and started seeing a pattern: an awful lot of reports of major issues with magazines in CM9s and PM9s, and quite a lot of magazine issues in the other polymer Kahrs. I started getting depressed!

I then did a Google search using "kahr magazine problems." There were more threads than anyone could read (try it and you'll see what I mean), on all the major gun forums, mostly about the PM and CM guns in 9mm and 40s&w! And there were lots of alarming complaints about poor customer service from Kahr: no answer to phone calls, no answer to emails, and always just the standard and inadequate replacement of the recoil spring or the magazine follower, with no willingness to admit that there are major design issues here that need to be FIXED! Also, the insistence that one use only one form of shipment that costs $40 to send guns back to them for service!

Another thing that I find highly unacceptable is Kahr's insistence that owners not rack the slide to load a round into the chamber, but only to do so using the magazine release. Again, this just illustrates that there is a serious existing problem with the design of their magazines, and they want to retrain owners instead of fixing the problem! It is irresponsible, bordering on criminal behavior, for them to continue to sell these guns, while denying that there is even a problem at all! If it were just one or two incidents, OK. But not with so many that there are multiple threads on every major gun forum, with replies from several other people having the same problems on every thread!

I know. Lots of people reply, saying that they have never had any problem with their guns. But the VERY LARGE number of complaints, and Kahr's unwillingness to admit to and address the problems with effective design changes, makes me have serious doubts about relying on a Kahr CM9 pistol for personal protection.

Have I bought a pig in a poke?

[TucsonMTB]

Nope! You're fine if you purchased it new. With a little pressure, Kahr will even pay for shipping if you have a problem. Admittedly, if you call them and act like a total jerk . . . all bets are off. Wait until you have a chance to shoot it. Then find something else that you can change to worry about, like maybe the rising US unemployment rate.

By the way, of the two Kahrs I purchased, both new, one was perfect and the other went back to the factory. There is one tweak to the follower that is often needed if you experience nose dives. The follower may benefit from some sanding to gain some clearance between it and the magazine catch. It's an easy to do fix that costs nothing, is easy to reverse, and takes a few minutes. It might even be a good preventive step the first time you disassemble you magazine for cleaning. Now, relax!

[Bawanna]

What Tucson said and add the CM has had a very good track record so far. We haven't seen one yet that had to go back and only one or two that needed a little fine tuning that was taken care of by the owner with a little help from our friends.

Alot of what you read on the internet is a bunch of baloney. Read it absorb it, try to verify it if you can. Also you hear a 100 times more bad reports than good.

I'm confident you'll be a happy camper when your CM arrives and you'll know that I speak the truth.

Poor service from Kahr incidently is kind of an isolated thing too. We've heard of it now and then. Sometimes maybe even frequently we can write it off as poor communication. We also read of countless times when they went above and beyond to make things right. Their repairs are generally quite fast compared to others, usually a week or less.

[WilliamG]

Agreed. Stop worrying, really. People are more likely to complain than praise, so that might be part of the issue. I bought my PM9 new in the last month, and it's been nothing but a joy since day one. Even break-in I had no issues, with all six of my mags, 3x 6-round mags, and 3x 7-round mags.

[RogerP9fan]

Well, I broke in my new CM9 today and had the slide lock open 3 times in the middle of firing. Just had to hit the slide stop to resume firing. Thereafter, all went well and it's a very good shooting little gun. I sure hope there isn't any inherent design flaw in this little guy. I fired a total of 100 WWB 115g. (of course I've got another 100 to go)
Got the CW45 coming next week, you didn't mention any inherent design flaws with it.

[CJB]

Hi, y'all. I am new to the forum

Another thing that I find highly unacceptable is Kahr's insistence that owners not rack the slide to load a round into the chamber, but only to do so using the magazine release. Again, this just illustrates that there is a serious existing problem with the design of their magazines, and they want to retrain owners instead of fixing the problem!

Welcome!~

What you said (in the quote up there) is unadulterated misunderstanding of Kahr's guiding design ideals, and their implementation of the same, coupled with an incomplete comprehension of Kahr's decision to state what they do.

Kahr has developed the pistols in accordance to a design principle that makes size of the pistol a large consideration in the design process. Because of that, the amount of "overtravel" in the slide is very small. That is, on the slide's movement backward, once the slide clears the back of the round in the magazine it then almost immediately moves forward. On a design like the 1911, and many other pistols, the slide will continue rearward even though the breechface has fully passed the round in the magazine. On a 1911 this is quite nearly 1/2 inch of overtravel. On a Kahr PM45, its more like .060" overtravel.

Because of this, it is not out of the realm of reasonable and considerate thought, to imagine that a good deal of the shooting populace may have a problem getting that slide fully to the rear, withing .060" of where it needs to be, just to get that first round into the chamber. A lot of folks CAN do that successfully, but a lot of other folks cannot perform that maneuver.

Kahr's "insistence" is their way of promoting a method that works with the greatest number of shooters. The guns are up to having their slides racked, its not a design thing, but a "get the most shooters actually shooting" thing.

[RogerP9fan]

Ah, getting some very interesting facts rolling in now.......just wait till Bawanna and jocko get here lol

[slowpoke]

I only have two Kahrs that I bought new. Both were perfect from day one.
I plan on one or two more.
I think that many of the complaints that are out there maybe from those who would take a gun out of the box and go to the range without any pre-lube. New Kahrs seem to like it clean and wet.

[Scimmia]

FWIW, I put 150 rounds through a new CM9 today, and racked the slide almost every time to see if I could duplicate the issue. It only happened once, and that was when I was riding the slide forward very slowly. I racked it very slowly a number of times, but it still only happened once. I'm not going to complain at all.

[Bawanna]

Ah, getting some very interesting facts rolling in now.......just wait till Bawanna and jocko get here lol

I can't speak for Jocko, but Bawanna's done been here and gone. I think he took a midnight train to Georgia or maybe Nebraska.

Nothing to worry about here. Shoot it, love it, drink your kool aid and join the party.

[bigbob68]

No mag problems IMO. I have never had issue with mags from Kahr. They are the only mag that locks back 100% of the time. I sling shot my slide without issue and always load to capacity + 1. No conspiracy that I see.

[SkeletonSlinky]

"The follower may benefit from some sanding to gain some clearance between it and the magazine catch. It's an easy to do fix that costs nothing, is easy to reverse, and takes a few minutes. It might even be a good preventive step the first time you disassemble you magazine for cleaning. "

Been shooting my new PM9 with 100% reliability, both using the sling shot method and the Kahr recommendation...not one problem. Also did the "follower" mod as a simple preventative measure while I was putting it through it's prep...before I even took the first shot. Make sure you follow Jocko's Kahr Prep and the Kahr Lube chart in the Kahr Tech section before you shoot. No Fear - Look forward to your new CM!

[RogerP9fan]

Man, more great tips.......tak'in notes. But..where do you do the sanding on the follower? On the bottom part that hooks up with the mag spring? Or the very top where the bullet rests? Or that little circular bump on the side of the follower?

[SkeletonSlinky]

Check out the sticky in the Kahr Tech section called "CW45 (and other poly 45): issues and fixes". Read through that and you'll see the portion where Greg notes the simple modification to the follower to allow it to smoothly get past the magazine release. He's got great photos showing just what to do and how much to take off (applies to the PM/CM9 as well).

[RogerP9fan]

Awesome. Thanks very much.