PM9 Range Report: The Honeymoon is over.

[sierrajb]

Hey, Kahr Crazies,
Just got back from an hour or so at a range, trying to improve my trigger finger and complete the "break-in" period for my new PM9. Until today, I had run about 150 rounds of various brands and loads, resulting in 0% failures. It was love at first blast!

However, today was a different story.

Here's what I shot:
1. 100 rounds of Winchester (white box) with 115 grain.
2. 50 rounds of Monarch (Academy Sports brand) with 115 grain.

I nailed several "bullseye" shots from 21 feet to 100 feet. In fact, I was able to hit THREE in a bullseye the size of a silver dollar from 100 feet! So, the Kahr is deadly accurate. (We won't talk about all the others that were scattered like buckshot...)

Out of the 150 shells, I experienced a possible 5.3% failure (a total of 8*; 2 could have been my fault):
1. 2 Failure to Eject (jammed open)
2. 2 Failure to Load into the Barrel (jammed open)
3. 2 Failure to Fire (trigger just went "click")
4. 2 times the magazine popped out! I think my thumb hit the release button one of those times, but I swear I was nowhere near that button the second time! Honest, Mom!

Here are some possible acceptable excuses:
1. The gun was "dirty" from my last range visit. I knew I was going again soon, so I didn't clean it before taking it this time.
2. Some of this could have been all ME...I'm still a newbie. Was it a limp wrist? No way! If anything, my grip was TOO STRONG because I caught myself "shaking" halfway through my shoot, so I braced my arms on a firm surface for a while.
3. The break-in period is not yet over. Oh well...I'm sure that I'm well beyond the "200" mark, but I'm sure there will be someone to say I need to go another 200 rounds for good measure.

Needless to say, I feel like the honeymoon's over. I'm not giving up on this relationship, though. This is still a sweet gun, and I'm still new at this sport (and lifestyle of carrying). Any words of wisdom, encouragement, or loving rebuke will be gladly accepted. Thanks ahead of time!

[Ressom]

Yes, clean it and lube it. Run it a little "wet" during break-in. Did you at least lube it before shooting today?

The failure to fire concerns me. I'd disassemble to slide and investigate. If you're not up to that then spray break-cleaner (non-chlorinated) in the hole of the slide to clear the striker channel. This should be a step in your cleaning of the firearm.

[hoghunter]

I agree with Ressom. You mentioned you didn't clean it after the initial 150. I would definitely get that thing cleaned and lubed. One thing I am going to do when I take my "repaired" CM9 out is to run it a little more lubed than I normally would. The dadgum gun is so tight that it could probably use it. I'm not talking dripping or anything. I contemplated a few grips but decided on the Talon Sandpaper grips for the CM9 (sorry JFoot, I couldn't pass up the lower cost of the Talon vs AGrip). I didn't see a mention of grips. Not everyone needs 'em but I want to eliminate any grip issues. Here I am giving advice and I just got mine back from Kahr today. But I am steadily become very knowledgeable through reading & trial/error. I am also learning that this CM9 is not like many other pistols I own. This is not my CZ or my old Glock for sure. It has required a lot more patience and learning. My hope is that by understanding this CM9 inside and out I will have a long lasting and reliable CCW. Stick with it.

[CJB]

The "click"... probably not in battery for some reason

[sierrajb]

Luby, I'm Home!

Yes, clean it and lube it. Run it a little "wet" during break-in. Did you at least lube it before shooting today?

The failure to fire concerns me. I'd disassemble to slide and investigate. If you're not up to that then spray break-cleaner (non-chlorinated) in the hole of the slide to clear the striker channel. This should be a step in your cleaning of the firearm.

Sorry about the corny title, Ressom, but couldn't resist. I'm trying to maintain my sense of humor in all this. To answer your question, "No, I did not lube it before shooting it today." To give more detail, I had shot 50 of very dirty ammo (Tula Ammo, yuck) about 10 days ago, but never cleaned it afterwards, thinking a few more rounds wouldn't hurt.

I can't recall WHY it failed to fire those two times. I think one time the bullet did not go into the barrel, and maybe another time the mag had slipped down (my fault?). Either cause, I will do as you say and break it all down and clean with break cleaner (3M non-chlorinated).

I've also purchased some Rem Oil in the spray can from Walmart. Some posts speaking highly of this "TW25" stuff, but I can't seem to find any around here. Maybe I don't know what I'm looking for. Is the spray Rem Oil good enough?

Thanks for your help and advice.

[sierrajb]

Got a Grip on it

[...I didn't see a mention of grips. Not everyone needs 'em but I want to eliminate any grip issues...[/QUOTE]

No sir, I'm not using any aftermarket grips. Just the ones Kahr gave me that came on the gun. This gun fits my hands like it was made for them, and I really feel like I've got a killer grip already without adding new grips. However, I could be wrong.

Like I said in the OP, my grip was so firm that I found myself a bit "shaky" at times, maybe from "over-gripping." Is that possible, and if so, could that be the cause of any problems I experienced?

I'd love to rule out shooter's error and blame it all on the gun, but I'm not experienced enough to do that. I will follow your advice and Ressom's as soon as I get some down time to clean & lube my PM9 properly. Then, I think I'll try another 150 rounds with the very same ammo to see if I can reproduce the problem. Good idea?

[OldLincoln]

Please understand - everybody with new Kahr pistols:

The lube chart is for Lube (grease) not just oil!. The break-in is to force metal parts that rub together by design to wear, get it? WEAR together until they are smooth. That wearing together creates a lot of FRICTION! Friction slows down the slide. The slide running slow causes failures. You HAVE to clean your gun between visits and put extra lube (yes GREASE) on the lube points until it is broken-in! If you fail to clean the gun or you fail to lube it properly, it is your failure - don't blame the gun!

You wouldn't buy a new fancy car and drain the oil the drive it only to complain when it breaks, so don't do that to your Kahr!!!

[sierrajb]

Yes, Sir!

Please understand - everybody with new Kahr pistols:

The lube chart is for Lube (grease) not just oil!. The break-in is to force metal parts that rub together by design to wear, get it? WEAR together until they are smooth. That wearing together creates a lot of FRICTION! Friction slows down the slide. The slide running slow causes failures. You HAVE to clean your gun between visits and put extra lube (yes GREASE) on the lube points until it is broken-in! If you fail to clean the gun or you fail to lube it properly, it is your failure - don't blame the gun!

You wouldn't buy a new fancy car and drain the oil the drive it only to complain when it breaks, so don't do that to your Kahr!!!

OldLincoln,
I completely agree. As I stated in my previous post, I'm not about to blame the gun until I do what I'm supposed to do. Sorry, but I'm a bit retarded, as I've tried to make clear to everyone on this forum. I'm the proud owner of a beautiful PM9 that was given to me only 3 weeks ago. I've asked in other posts what kind of grease to use, but can't get a straight answer except for "TW25." Please read my post again. I cannot find this "TW25", plus I'm asking if the oil I have is good enough. Still waiting on a response, but it's only been a few minutes since I've posted the question.

I totally respect your wisdom and experience, so please tutor me. No need to scold. Just tell me where to find the best grease in the Dallas-Fort Worth area, and I'll pick some up on my lunch hour tomorrow. Seriously, thanks for your passion and paddling. I promise to do better.

[JFootin]

TW25-
http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/pid=2..._CARE_PRODUCTS

[sierrajb]

TW25-
http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/pid=2..._CARE_PRODUCTS

Thank You, Sir! I thought I saw this at the shooting range shop today, but I didn't see "TW25" on it. It had some other brand name on it, so I never read the label/ingredients. I'll take a closer look tomorrow and see if I can get this locally. Appreciate the help!

[mr surveyor]

First, leave the monarch crap on the store shelf. Commie ammo if for commie guns with loose tolerances.

Second, properly clean the gun. New guns with tight tolerances just don't tolerate much carbon fouling and crud until they are well broken in.

Third... did I mention to leave the commie ammo on the shelf. Steel cased and "bi-metal" cased ammo should not be relied upon to function 100% in a tight gun.

just my "I wasn't there" guesses.


surv

[sierrajb]

Confused

First, leave the monarch crap on the store shelf. Commie ammo if for commie guns with loose tolerances.

Second, properly clean the gun. New guns with tight tolerances just don't tolerate much carbon fouling and crud until they are well broken in.

Third... did I mention to leave the commie ammo on the shelf. Steel cased and "bi-metal" cased ammo should not be relied upon to function 100% in a tight gun.

just my "I wasn't there" guesses.


surv

As a Newbie, I'll almost listen to anyone who knows more than I do...which is pretty easy to find these days. I was at Academy Sports to buy some ammo, and the salesman and another gun owner (customer) swore by this Monarch stuff, but both agree Winchester was better. So, I bought the box of 100 Winchester, and settled for 50 of the Monarch. I was really surprised to note that the majority of my failures actually happened while using the Winchester, NOT the Monarch (commie stuff). Only 1 or 2 failures happened with the Monarch.

However, as has already been established, it's probably all my fault for not cleaning the gun between range visits. I actually got the idea to wait to clean it from this forum (can't remember, of course, the poster's name).

Bottom Line: Brush your teeth between meals, clean your gun between range visits. That's not confusing. What's confusing is the different opinions you'll get on ammo. Go figger!

Thanks for your advice. Worthy of following!

[yqtszhj]

OldLincoln,
I completely agree. As I stated in my previous post, I'm not about to blame the gun until I do what I'm supposed to do. Sorry, but I'm a bit retarded, as I've tried to make clear to everyone on this forum. I'm the proud owner of a beautiful PM9 that was given to me only 3 weeks ago. I've asked in other posts what kind of grease to use, but can't get a straight answer except for "TW25." Please read my post again. I cannot find this "TW25", plus I'm asking if the oil I have is good enough. Still waiting on a response, but it's only been a few minutes since I've posted the question.

I totally respect your wisdom and experience, so please tutor me. No need to scold. Just tell me where to find the best grease in the Dallas-Fort Worth area, and I'll pick some up on my lunch hour tomorrow. Seriously, thanks for your passion and paddling. I promise to do better.

During break in just use Hoppes or any other gun oil then shoot it like crazy. Should run even on dirty ammo for a while if it's lubed good. After you shoot a couple of hunderd rounds find a grease, any sporting goods store should have some, hit all those lube spots and get um slick, then go with that. I used Hoppes for a while until I got tired of ooil in my pocket then bought some remmington grease at my local sporting goods store. It works fine.

You and your PM9 will be fine.

[Ressom]

sierrajb, don't worry about it! Get it cleaned and lubed and then back to the range. I bet you will have a lot better results (like your first 150 rounds).

I wouldn't worry so much on the kind of grease... whatever your gun store has should be fine. And the rem-oil will be fine too. Like I said... run it a little wet during break-in. I'd oil the rails and where the slide rubs the hood of the barrel after every 50 rounds or so.

Good to know it wasn't a true failure to fire (a light strike or something). It sounds the striker is working fine and not gunked up. You should still spray out the striker channel with break-cleaner. There is a little hole you can put the straw in to spray. You can pick some up from wal-mart for about $4 (I think it is CNC brand or something).

[Ressom]

Sorry about the corny title, Ressom, but couldn't resist. I'm trying to maintain my sense of humor in all this.

I get it now... "honeymoon"... "run it a little wet"... I walked right into that one!