Crimson Trace Question...

[Michael W.]

Hey guys,

Just had another fairly boring 100rds through my CM9 today.
With about 400 rds through it she's running fairly smooth
right now. The trigger is outstanding. Actually nicer than my PM9.

So anyway, I ordered a CT LG-437 as the final step before turning
the gun over to my wife for her EDC (hopefully).

This is my first experience with a laser of any kind.
You guys with the CT lasers on your Kahrs, what should I expect
on POI/POA on these out of the box? How much tweaking did it
take to zero the laser at 7 yards?

Thanks in advance.

Michael-

[BuckeyeBlast]

It's cake and can be done at home. If you want to zero at 7 yards, pick a light colored wall in your house, back up 21 feet from it, and align the laser until it matches up with your iron sights. Good luck!

[Alfonse]

You will need to set it

to zero, but it is pretty easy. You can start by adjusting it to the sights visually and do any final tweaks at the range. Simple screw type of adjustment for elevation and windage.

[Michael W.]

Thanks guys, makes sense I guess, make the laser the same as the iron sights...duhhh

M-

[slick slidestop]

I dont have my PM9 yet, should be here in a couple of days, but on my LCP, the Crimson trace was right on the money out of the box. I didn't need any adjustment.

Hope your experience will be the same!!

[rclAlaric]

I have a related question for you all. I have a CM9 with the Crimson Trace laser on it. Yesterday I was on the range and sighted in the laser to line up with the fixed sights at 7 yards.

After about 25 rounds down range I noticed the laser was not in the same spot it was after I sighted it in.

Has anyone else experienced that?

BTW, as I shoot my CM9 more and more (about 500 rounds through it so far), I grow to love that little gun! Had my best range experience with it yet yesterday.

Just wish I could get the laser to stop moving!

Thanks guys for your help!

[Markis82]

I have a related question for you all. I have a CM9 with the Crimson Trace laser on it. Yesterday I was on the range and sighted in the laser to line up with the fixed sights at 7 yards.

After about 25 rounds down range I noticed the laser was not in the same spot it was after I sighted it in.

Has anyone else experienced that?

BTW, as I shoot my CM9 more and more (about 500 rounds through it so far), I grow to love that little gun! Had my best range experience with it yet yesterday.

Just wish I could get the laser to stop moving!

Thanks guys for your help!

The CTC when mounted properly is rock solid. Usually when this is experienced, the problem is that the mounting screws are not tight enough. Try squeezing the laser body with your fingers in the area of the mounting screws and while you're squeezing try to tighten the mounting screws just a tad more. I think you will find this solves your problem. If you still have a problem, it could be that the CTC body is out of tolerance or the diode is actually moving. Contact Crimson Trace and they will advise you. Their customer service is excellent and will do everything to make it right. Let us know what happens.

Mark

[Redfish]

I've also experienced problems with CTC laser on PM 40. The device moves. I contacted CTC and was assured that it was ok to really tighten the screws. I made the tips of the screws exit the other side of the housing. It still moved. I can push it with my finger and cause the laser dot to change positions and stay that way until moved again. The obvious answer should be "keep your finger off of it." But I've had it move in my pocket and range bag. CTC replaced it but new one was the same. Then had broken fame on Kahr. So, new laser, new frame, same problem. And, looking at it from the front of the gun, it's clear that the laser housing does not fit the gun. Larger gap on one side than the other. Gap in the same place through both lasers and both gun frames. Have tried clamping it closed while tightening the screws. No change. The two halves of the laser housing fit together tightly but it still moves. ??

[TheTman]

I've noticed when I zero the laser for 7 yards, it's not zeroed in for longer ranges. I think it's as the taget gets farther away, the laser dot gets higher and higher the farther out your go. It's not a big difference, I think that's ok, cause if the target is more than 15 yards away I think I'm going to do my best to skidaddle and get the hell out of there if I can.

[BrewerGeorge]

I've noticed when I zero the laser for 7 yards, it's not zeroed in for longer ranges. I think it's as the taget gets farther away, the laser dot gets higher and higher the farther out your go. It's not a big difference, I think that's ok, cause if the target is more than 15 yards away I think I'm going to do my best to skidaddle and get the hell out of there if I can.

It's unavoidable. The laser axis is so far from the bore that parallax error is a big deal. Imagine trying to line up two laser beams that are 3 inches apart at the start. You have to pick a spot where you want the beams to cross, and the closer that distance is to the barrel, the quicker they'll get too far apart at distance. I've been thinking of applying some trigonometry to figure out the best distance for the crossing point, because the problem is even worse with my revolver but I haven't gotten around to it yet. For now I'm set at 10 yards.

Alternatively, you can set them up so that the two beams are parallel. That way they will never cross, but the distance and direction they're off will be the same at all distances from the barrel.

[mianesva]

Recently got PM9. Did about 300-400 rounds. "Runs" great. Fairly accurate. I also have an LCP. The PM9 is obviously "easier" to handle and I am a lot more accurate with it.

So I put the CT Laser on it a few days ago. Tried 100 rounds.
First thing I noticed is that, perhaps due to difference in grip?, my pinky is getting either pinched or poked by corner of bottom rear left of magazine. I did not get this feeling during the 400 round break in period... or at least don't recall it... In addition, now I am less accurate than prior to laser upgrade when still using the sights. When using the laser I am definitely less accurate, but I assume that is a separate issue....

All of this at 7 yard.

My questions are:
1. Do you notice that due to the change in grip your PM/CM 9 accuracy changes? (I also experienced this when trying a hogue grip (the rubber kind) which I quickly removed.

2. Do you notice that when using the laser (sighted appropiately) you are less accurate on "slow" shots than when using the sights? (My guess with me is that it has to do with my stance and grip as I have to move the gun a little lower so I can actually "see" the red dot as it would normally be obscured by front sight.

3. Do you notice, as I did, that for quick successive shots using the laser is always more accurate than using the sights?

4. Have you started to wear down one of the screws from having installed/uninstalled the CT 3 times or so? (I am guessing CT can send me a replacement one...)

Enjoy the PM/CM9 ! Very happy and pleasantly surprised with mine.

Thanks
Miguel

PS. Regarding the Parallax error.... yes, it all makes sense.

[BrewerGeorge]

Mianesva

I set my lasers to be an addition to the iron sites, not a replacement for them. Accordingly, the lasers are set so the dot is visible right above the iron sites in a good site picture. To my mind, you shouldn't have to lower the gun to be able to see it.

I've also found it can make you slower when you're trying to be careful for that first shot because the laser magnifies every little movement, and that movement throws you off your game a little bit. The trick is to figure out how to only use it for the fast stuff and keep using the iron sites when they are better.

[MO_Soldier]

Brewer, you seem like you can pick up geometric concepts.
I haven't calculated for optimal discretion between the laser and POA.
However, I chose to sight in at 15 feet and this is why:
At 15 feet I'm dead on, with the laser resting on the top of my front sight post.
At my weapon, my bullet trajectory is approx. 1.5-2" above the laser.
Since the opposite angles of my laser and trajectory at the 15ft point of impact are equal, then at 30ft, my laser will land approx. 1.5-2" above my bullet.
Therefore, anywhere within 30ft, my accuracy will be within a 3-4".
That will easily suite my needs without even considering the iron sights, and 30ft is more than enough for SD purposes, since I only anticipate <15ft.

[garyb]

If the CTL is tightened down properly and fits your trigger guard properly, it should not move. You should be able to sight it at any distance indoors, by simply alaigning with your front sight. 10 to 15 yrds is a good distance to start, but this is personal preference and you can set it at any distance you feel you need it. If your CTL still moves after you are certain it is tight, you have a couple of options: send it back to the manufacturer (as some molded plastics are known to not come out of the mold properly) or you can simply apply AGRIPS to your pistol. The AGRIP material does make the CTL tighten down better and prevent it from slipping right to left. I have had my CTL installed with AGRIPS for well over a year with ZERO problems of any kind. I still rely on my (night) sights for normal use, but the CTL works well for fast action in low light or indoors. It is not designed to completely replace your sights, so get used to using both at the same time. In bright light, the CTL is essencially useless and hence, using your sights is recommended. As you get used to the CTL by using it with dry fire practice, you will instinctively become better at point and shoot accuracy. Like anything, a CTL is a tool and if you have it installed properly and use it properly, it will serve you well. If you are having problems with your CTL, contact the manufacturer and they will help you. It is an excellent product.

[tintingkc]

New member so hello first of all. When I added the CT to my PM40 I had issues with it moving. Even when tightened well you could move it back and forth with light pressure. I was able to change the alignment from side to side by hand which was frustrating.
Looking at it mounted from the front showed one side slightly higher then the other on the front of the laser (half moon area) that meets the frame. This was only allowing one side to hold the windage alignment tightly. After taking it apart and lightly shaving that area until it sat even with the other side I was able to get the laser onto the frame tighter. Basically making the half circle smooth instead of two halves with a ridge. Have not had issues with movement after this. It tightens down better and takes more force to move it now. When it does get bumped or moved it tends to fall back into alignment now vs off to one side.