Part II TP45 Covert project

[ripley16]

My new TP45 came home on Wednesday. I intend to shoot it a bit before I start my transition project to convert it into a “Covert” model TP45. So for now this is a routine range report for anyone interested in the big Kahr.

I’m a true believer in the product Militec-1, so the gun got a good cleaning and is now fairly wet with a coating of oil. I didn’t do a hairdryer heat treatment because I will be shooting enough to get the metal hot… a requirement for the Militec-1 conditioner.

Another phase of my usual pre-shooting regimen is to clean the mag tubes and mag springs with Eezox, another product that delivers useful qualities, namely a slick, dry, rust-inhibitive film. All of my mags see Eezox.

I have a fairly good supply of .45acp ammo, so I’ll be able to initially test some 230 gr. FMJ from Winchester, Blazer Brass, Remington, American Eagle and two HPs by Gold Dot, Hornady TAP +P, and some Magtech 165gr SCHP +P, (a round I’ve previously had some feed problems with).

Just returned from the range, here's the result...



I shot a total 149 rounds of all the ammo mentioned. The Magtech once again failed to feed. It is a round to be avoided at all costs.

The center green dot was the very first 5 round mag shot solely to get the "feel" of the gun. The six green dots are ten round groups shot to see how the rounds fed, felt, grouped, etc. Starting at 12:00 and going clockwise, I shot Winchester,Remington, Hornady, Gold Dot, Blazer and finally American Eagle. The Target at 7:00 was originally Magtech, but I only fired one round, (circled), and gave up on it and shot 5 rounds of Blazer. These were all shot at 7 yards.

The two Orange Peel targets were used to test the speed of rapid fire, unaimed shots with a full mag +1. This was a mixed bag as I am pleased with how the gun shot, but I had a couple malfunctions. These were shot at 3 yards.

Not counting the worthless Magtech, I had the following problems;
* Slide lock on 3 rd. of a mag... may be me as I shoot thumbs forward and tight to the slide.
* Three stovepipes, all three with a very deformed case. One was hard to clear as it also jammed into the mag. All were on the last round.

I fired one magazine with my left hand, unsupported and was surprized at the recoil. My left hand is evidently much weaker than my right. I'm able to hit what I see, but it kicks hard. Single handed shooting with my right hand was much easier.

As you can see the vast majority of my shots were low and left. I think the sights are off a little bit, but I admit I tend to shoot there usually, just not that consistently.

I might go ahead and shoot another hundred or so before I do any cutting. If the gun isn't reliable I wont adulterate the gun. I'm hoping it will smooth out and lose the stovepipes. We'll see...

[jlottmc]

I've never had that Mag-tech fail to feed. In fact it is my load for my P45, and my reloads for my P345. I agree though you need some more trigger time with that pistol though.

[Bawanna]

Seems to be close for elevation, just off to the left. If you think your working the trigger right and not milking a little sight adjustment might be the cure. I like the tight little Gold Dot group. The TAP seemed to be right in there and not as far left either?
I believe it will straighten itself out.
Was it the same magazine on all 3 stovepipes? Same ammo or a mix?

[wyntrout]

Ripley, I would have guessed that you were right-handed because your groupings are to the left and low, as mine were with the PM9. I couldn't improve much on that even knowing what I was doing wrong. After I got the PM45, things changed and I was hitting or around the bull and not to the left anymore... the same with the P380 when I got that. When I went back and tried the "stepchild" PM9 again, I shot it about the same as the PM45 and P380. It's really about the trigger pull and control during the pull. I'm not saying that moving the sight wouldn't help now, but you might have to move it back before too long.

And when you start your project, you might consider modifying the grip around, say a 6-shot 1911 mag that works with the slide lock. Some of those mags work quite well and are flush fitting. There was at least one person who did that and even cut a recess in the front of the grip to make the front "tab" of the base fit flush. I think that he cut down a bit and re-welded the base on the 1911 mag, though.

Wynn

[ripley16]

The reason I think the sights are a bit off is because all but two of my aimed shots are too the left. That's very unusual. I'll take a look at the sights after I clean the gun to see if there's anything obvious. Being a bit low could well be a trigger finger problem. This is the least smooth trigger of any Kahr I've ever fired.

One thing I forgot to mention in my first post is that I developed a small blister on the back of my thumb. I don't recall any gun ever doing that before. Maybe I'm getting soft in my old age.

[Bawanna]

The reason I think the sights are a bit off is because all but two of my aimed shots are too the left. That's very unusual. I'll take a look at the sights after I clean the gun to see if there's anything obvious. Being a bit low could well be a trigger finger problem. This is the least smooth trigger of any Kahr I've ever fired.

One thing I forgot to mention in my first post is that I developed a small blister on the back of my thumb. I don't recall any gun ever doing that before. Maybe I'm getting soft in my old age.

What do you think caused the blister? And on the back?

[ripley16]

I've never had that Mag-tech fail to feed. In fact it is my load for my P45, and my reloads for my P345. I agree though you need some more trigger time with that pistol though.

Are you carrying the 165gr solid copper rounds?

This is the third pistol I've had that will not feed, (ie; go to battery fully) this round. In addition to not going to battery, the round jambs in so tight is is almost impossible to retract the slide and unload the stuck round. I ended up smacking the rear of the slide to force the slide home and then shot.

I tried to give the ammo away at the range and had no takers.

Other MagTech ammo has not given me this problem... only the solid copper bullets give me problems.

[ripley16]

What do you think caused the blister? And on the back?

The small blister is where my thumb joins the web and rests on the left side of the beavertail. I guess the gun was rubbing there too much. Except for the 60 slow fire rounds, the rest, 89 rounds, were rapid fire, about half of it +P and the tiny grip moves in my hand a bit. You'll notice I've added a grip sleeve. Usually these help.

[wyntrout]

The reason I think the sights are a bit off is because all but two of my aimed shots are too the left. That's very unusual. I'll take a look at the sights after I clean the gun to see if there's anything obvious. Being a bit low could well be a trigger finger problem. This is the least smooth trigger of any Kahr I've ever fired.

One thing I forgot to mention in my first post is that I developed a small blister on the back of my thumb. I don't recall any gun ever doing that before. Maybe I'm getting soft in my old age.

Could that be from the magazine release? I have no problem with the slide release, but that mag release button on the .45 can wear on your thumb after a while. It's hard for me to stay off it. That sucker could use a little "melting", but I've go the DLC finish.

Okay, the web... yeah those nibs bite. My tube helps, but if you already have a sore place, it just gets worse.

This is one project I had confused with a covert modification, I think. I just misplaced another link, dang it.

http://kahrtalk.com/pm-series-pistol...y-pm-45-a.html

Wynn

[Bawanna]

Gotcha, the coursness of the grip, not slide bite or rub from a high grip hold although the high grip hold would contribute to the blister in that area. I knocked some of the rough off on my PM and did the tube deal or I'm sure my hands would have been hamburger helper for sure.

[jlottmc]

Are you carrying the 165gr solid copper rounds?

This is the third pistol I've had that will not feed, (ie; go to battery fully) this round. In addition to not going to battery, the round jambs in so tight is is almost impossible to retract the slide and unload the stuck round. I ended up smacking the rear of the slide to force the slide home and then shot.

I tried to give the ammo away at the range and had no takers.

Other MagTech ammo has not given me this problem... only the solid copper bullets give me problems.

I carry the solid copper hollow points, I've fired a pretty fair number, and haven't had a problem one. They shoot a hair low, but that's the difference in bullet weight. How old are those rounds? Perhaps they have swollen a bit. It's the same thing as the Corbon DPX round, and a couple of others that use a Barnes X bullet. Being solid copper, they rounds might swell a bit if exposed to certain chemicals and/or humidity. I'm just taking a stab in the dark on that one.

[ripley16]

Seems to be close for elevation, just off to the left. If you think your working the trigger right and not milking a little sight adjustment might be the cure. I like the tight little Gold Dot group. The TAP seemed to be right in there and not as far left either?
I believe it will straighten itself out.
Was it the same magazine on all 3 stovepipes? Same ammo or a mix?

The TAP is the ammo I carry in my CCW because I've always had excellent, consistent accuracy from it and Gold Dot. TAP is the benchmark by which I measure other brands. Seeing the TAP off so far is the main factor that makes me think the sight is off a tad bit.

I don't know which mags were which. I was alternating them only to use them equally. The stovepipes happened with Remington, Blazer Brass andGold Dot. ...all fired fast, at a two or three rounds per second rate.

[ripley16]

I carry the solid copper hollow points, I've fired a pretty fair number, and haven't had a problem one. They shoot a hair low, but that's the difference in bullet weight. How old are those rounds? Perhaps they have swollen a bit. It's the same thing as the Corbon DPX round, and a couple of others that use a Barnes X bullet. Being solid copper, they rounds might swell a bit if exposed to certain chemicals and/or humidity. I'm just taking a stab in the dark on that one.

I had problems from the day I bought them, 100 rounds total. I have only about 15 rounds left, but I'll not try to shoot them. Bad batch maybe. If we lived close to each other I'd give them to you.

Could be the bullet isn't setback as far as it should. The bullet gets stuck in the bore and simply will not seat properly. I bought them originally to shoot in my HK, but they didn't work. Tried them in my P45 and they didn't work.

[wyntrout]

Here's the link about another magazine option:
http://kahrtalk.com/pm-series-pistol...tion-pm45.html

Wynn

[ripley16]

Trip two to the range

Fired another 59 rounds of mixed ammo. At least now I'm over the 200 round "break-in" period. I had one more stovepipe, this one in the middle of a magazine, not the last round. I still shot poorly but this time I took another gun that I always shoot well with...just as a control against which to measure myself. The truth is I shot both badly... no excuses, just a bad week at the range. I did manage one really good group.

The misfeeds are troubling though. Here's a picture of some of the crumpled cases. Four cases a problem, two others ejected without causing a stopage.



I'm having some serious second thoughts about this pistol ever being a CCW. 4 stovepipes out of 208 rounds is a lousy record.

The first mag opened up my blister too. At least this time I took my shooting glove.