New CT380 jam-o-matic, newbie, help??

[Tobinator]

Got my new CT380 last week, first gun ever. Been shooting about six weeks. I've rented a K9 and a P380 at the range and loved them. Beautiful little pistols, and I'm more accurate with them than any of the other ones I've tried.

Cleaned and lubed it according to the lube diagram as best I could, with Froglube, following the Froglube directions (heat, apply, let it sit a while, wipe off the excess).

I've read the 380s are finicky about ammo, so I bought four different brands of round-nose FMJ ammo to try and headed out to the range. I was using just the one mag that came with the gun.

Attempt #1, Sellier & Bellot. Two FTE out of first 3 rounds, gave up and moved on to the next brand figuring it'd be better.

Attempt #2, Remington UMC - 2 FTF out of 7 rounds. Uh-oh.

Attempt #3, American Eagle - 1 FTE and 1 FTF out of 7 rounds. What the...

Attempt #4, HyperClean - 1 FTF, 2 FTE out of 7 rounds. *cringe*

So basically I couldn't get thru a mag without at least two malfunctions.

Took it home, cleaned, lubed (wiped off less "excess" this time). Tried to get the mag apart to look at it and couldn't get the bottom plate off.

The plan is to go tomorrow and try again. I've read that Kahr doesn't want to even look at it until you're thru the 200 round break-in, but it's pretty painful trying to shoot 200 rounds when it's jamming every second or third round. (Meanwhile, my husband went and rented a Glock 42 and handed it to me. OK, yes, it eats whatever we feed it and goes bang every time, but I'm not ready to give up on my Kahr yet. He thinks I'm nuts to have bought this as my first gun. He's put 4000 rounds thru his Glock 26 so far without a single hiccup.)

Do I have a lemon on my hands? Should I try to get Kahr to look at it now or keep limping along thru the break-in period? Has anyone out there had their first twenty-odd rounds go this badly and then seen it magically smooth out?

Advice appreciated.


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[kenemoore]

Well since you are new to shooting, and the CT is new also, there is a chance you are not holding the pistol securely enough. The other Kahrs were range guns and I assume well broken in. Before you panic, I would recommend getting someone with a little more exposure to small pistols give it a try.

[wyntrout]

These small Kahr pistols with strong springs and lighter slides require a firm grip so that all of the slide's motion is directed at chambering a round instead of moving the whole pistol in your hand and wasting momentum. That might be your problem. It sould get easier to chamber a round as the pistol breaks in, but you really have to firmly grip these little pistols.

[gb6491]

Welcome to the forums

As you are having both FTE and FTF, I'd look for things that might affect both.
My first thought would be to dump the Frog Lube and go with grease or oil.
Grip, as you shot the P380 and seem pleased with it, I'm inclined think this is not a factor, but, if the problems persist, perhaps you might have another shooter try their hand with it.
Check the extractor. Look for damage, restricted movement, and proper tension (slide a case into position {shouldn't take a lot of force to do so} and check that the extractor holds it securely)
Check that the recoil spring(s) are installed correctly.

Otherwise, if you could tell us exactly what is happening when the pistol fails to feed or eject (IE, round or case position/attitude, etc.) would be be of help.

In regards to the magazine, are you having trouble depressing the button on the base plate or trouble sliding the plate off while depressing the button?

Regards,
Greg

[Tobinator]

Well since you are new to shooting, and the CT is new also, there is a chance you are not holding the pistol securely enough. The other Kahrs were range guns and I assume well broken in. Before you panic, I would recommend getting someone with a little more exposure to small pistols give it a try.

The P380 we rented jammed for both my husband and myself too, but not quite as much as the new CT380. (I asked the guy behind the counter about it and he basically shrugged like he sees this all the time.)

I know limp-wristing can be a problem but I took pains to hold it securely the way my instructor taught me. For comparison, we both shot a few mags' worth of the American Eagle ammo thru a rented Glock 42 half an hour later (and I shot the last mag one-handed) without a single problem.


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[Tobinator]

For what it's worth, this was with the P380 last week... so I think my grip is decent.




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[Tobinator]

Welcome to the forums

Thanks!

As you are having both FTE and FTF, I'd look for things that might affect both.
My first thought would be to dump the Frog Lube and go with grease or oil.

I was thinking about that too but was concerned I couldn't get the Frog Lube out sufficiently without breaking down the gun further than the basic disassembly--I've read FL mixed with petroleum products really gunks things up... So figured I would give it one more try with the FL.

Grip, as you shot the P380 and seem pleased with it, I'm inclined think this is not a factor, but, if the problems persist, perhaps you might have another shooter try their hand with it.
Check the extractor. Look for damage, restricted movement, and proper tension (slide a case into position {shouldn't take a lot of force to do so} and check that the extractor holds it securely)
Check that the recoil spring(s) are installed correctly.

Unfortunately I haven't a clue how to check the extractor... basic disassembly for cleaning has been my only exposure to the parts of the gun. It kinda sucks being new at this and facing a problem that would benefit from some know-how. For the recoil springs, I had the impression the closed end was supposed to be against the flange (the manual included with my gun omitted the CT series, so I'm extrapolating) but both ends of both springs appear to be closed.

Otherwise, if you could tell us exactly what is happening when the pistol fails to feed or eject (IE, round or case position/attitude, etc.) would be be of help.

In regards to the magazine, are you having trouble depressing the button on the base plate or trouble sliding the plate off while depressing the button?

I'm going to take more detailed notes tomorrow... for the magazine I was unable to slide off the plate despite depressing the button. That plate budged less than a millimeter and stopped.

Thanks, I appreciate the help!



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[kwh]

I did not have as much trouble as you, but yes my CW380 had feeding failures fairly frequently for the first 50 rounds or so. Since you also had jams on the rented P380 I would continue to work your grip. This is in addition to the above advice. The tiny pistols are different. I found out that a limp wrist and a straight wrist are not the same thing. On my tiny Kahr I must be sure my wrist is absolutely straight to give resistance to the slide. A tight grip did not help so much as a straight wrist did. Yes, you will find the small Kahr more likely to have problems with jams than a larger pistol, and it can be a difficult learning curve. Yes, it is a bummer to have to use up expensive ammo ammo, but once broken in and functional, there is no finer small .380. Accurate, with less perceived recoil and a sweet trigger pull. Please continue to report back in. Smart people here will help you figure out if it is the gun and ammo or the shooter.

The P380 we rented jammed for both my husband and myself too, but not quite as much as the new CT380. (I asked the guy behind the counter about it and he basically shrugged like he sees this all the time.)

I know limp-wristing can be a problem but I took pains to hold it securely the way my instructor taught me. For comparison, we both shot a few mags' worth of the American Eagle ammo thru a rented Glock 42 half an hour later (and I shot the last mag one-handed) without a single problem.


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[Alfonse]

You are a great shot, with good aim. That doesn't mean your grip is necessarily right though.

Not all, but a majority of the problems with these little pistols are with grip. Even though I had many thousands of rounds through other Kahrs, when I purchased a CW380 I had the same type of problems you are seeing. The little CW380 was actually bouncing around in the palm of my large hands. I had to change the way I held the pistol, and the problems vanished.

Welcome to the forum! There are other causes and another similar thread going right now talks about lots of them: http://www.kahrtalk.com/showthread.p...new-Kahr-CW380

Don't worry, it will get sorted.

For what it's worth, this was with the P380 last week... so I think my grip is decent.




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[Bobshouse]

Welcome to the site! The K9 and P380 rentals at the range is probably past the break in . Yours will get there, just be patient, and have lots of ammo! I agree with the others, Froglube might be a good lubricant, but you need to grease up your Kahr, especially for the breakin. I use a product called superlube synthetic grease. Follow the lube diagram on this site. I would use round nose ammo and give it a good break in, and keep going from there.

You purchased the gun new, right?

[Tobinator]

I found out that a limp wrist and a straight wrist are not the same thing. On my tiny Kahr I must be sure my wrist is absolutely straight to give resistance to the slide. A tight grip did not help so much as a straight wrist did. Yes, you will find the small Kahr more likely to have problems with jams than a larger pistol, and it can be a difficult learning curve. Yes, it is a bummer to have to use up expensive ammo ammo, but once broken in and functional, there is no finer small .380. Accurate, with less perceived recoil and a sweet trigger pull. Please continue to report back in. Smart people here will help you figure out if it is the gun and ammo or the shooter.

Interesting point. I've been careful to keep my wrist straight when shooting 9mm (I was having some recoil issues and wanted to make sure the recoil went into my forearm instead of my thumb joint) but it's possible I got lax about that with the 380. I'll keep an eye on that tomorrow and report back.



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[Tobinator]

You are a great shot, with good aim. That doesn't mean your grip is necessarily right though.

Not all, but a majority of the problems with these little pistols are with grip. Even though I had many thousands of rounds through other Kahrs, when I purchased a CW380 I had the same type of problems you are seeing. The little CW380 was actually bouncing around in the palm of my large hands. I had to change the way I held the pistol, and the problems vanished.

Welcome to the forum! There are other causes and another similar thread going right now talks about lots of them: http://www.kahrtalk.com/showthread.p...new-Kahr-CW380

Don't worry, it will get sorted.

Thanks for the kind words. When I posted that I kind of assumed that if my grip were loose the shots would've been all over the place, but maybe not... As you pointed out, grip and aim are two different things. I did manage to get six shots off without a FTF that time, at least.

How did you change your grip, can you describe it? My hands aren't that big, so I don't think that's my issue, but who knows...

I'll check out that other thread. Thanks!




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[Tobinator]

Welcome to the site! The K9 and P380 rentals at the range is probably past the break in . Yours will get there, just be patient, and have lots of ammo! I agree with the others, Froglube might be a good lubricant, but you need to grease up your Kahr, especially for the breakin. I use a product called superlube synthetic grease. Follow the lube diagram on this site. I would use round nose ammo and give it a good break in, and keep going from there.

You purchased the gun new, right?

Yes—I didn't want to risk buying a used gun because I wouldn't know what to look for when checking it over.

I tried leaving the gun wetter after this cleaning, but if the results are still poor tomorrow I'll clean off the FL and borrow some regular gun oil from my husband (or should I actually go and buy grease?).



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[kwh]

Oil should be fine for the break-in. I would recommend cleaning after every 30 rounds. In the early,early days, Kahr recommended a bullet with a pointed nose profile over a flat nose.

[ZardozCZ]

I have been so close to getting a Kahr 380 so many times, but I keep reading threads like these and am grateful I haven't. Instead I have a CM9, a K9, and lately an MK9 and have great results with each of them.

I did pick up a Bersa Thunder 380 and a CZ83 in 380 to see which the girlfriend preferred, but kept the CZ83 for myself. It's about the size of the G26 but does it perform flawlessly for me! It is likely my most accurate center fire pistol, especially with fast follow up shots. Some find it snappy but it's gentle in my hands. If you're sticking with 380, you might give one a try. 12+1 rounds is a plus for self defense, and Lehigh extreme penetrators/defenders are a potent round for self defense as well.

I'm still tempted to try a Kahr 380 but I just take the CZ to the range and fall in love with it all over again (not really but you get my drift).

My Kahr 9s fill their roll well too.