The barrels - what IS the real deal?

[Bobshouse]

I shoot a lot of lead, so I prefer the rifled barrel.

[kahrbrian]

https://www.americanrifleman.org/art...ts-own-market/

this article is bogus. The Kahr site says the C line of pistols use 416 stainless - ALL Kahr pistols have the same quality steel in the slide. And as pointed out, there is a coating on the value line barrels.

And, no one has shown a difference in accuracy or longevity. If one was CHF, and one wasn’t there would be a difference I would immediately understand. Words like “match grade” are meaningless.

[DJK11]

About barrel coating, my older P series barrels are very highly polished to a gloss sheen but my TP45 with a BOD one year ago has a mat finished barrel as does the replacement barrel on a P380. I'm referring to the exterior finish. The ramp and rifleing are polished.

[kahrbrian]

My older PM9 has a matte barrel coating. I thought this was actually nickel? I cannot find a recent source for it.

I will summarize what I think so far:

The barrels are different in that they are not polygonal and are not Lothar "match grade". By all reports, there is NO discernible difference in performance. In fact, I've seen some excellent results from C series. Material is likely the same. So, to most barrels are a wash. (For some who shoot lead, value series is actually preferable).

As for the premium guns. Slides are the same in material/quality. SS are MIM vs. milled. one or two mags vs. 3. I'll have to say that my old PM 9 only came with 2 mags. New S series have 2. Sights are not dovetailed in the front.

[ripley16]

OK... made me look into the slide material question. I was wrong. The Kahr site clearly states that the slides of both the Premium and Value lines are made from the same 416 stainless.

[Bawanna]

OK... made me look into the slide material question. I was wrong. The Kahr site clearly states that the slides of both the Premium and Value lines are made from the same 416 stainless.

Never ever admit your wrong, just place the blame on somebody else, or post it on the internet, then it will be the truth.

Tell everybody that's what Jocko told you.

I got a text from him on my wife's phone, how he got that number is a mystery to me. Some interesting information.
I'm dying to share but have to make sure it's ok to let the cat out of the sack. No his sheep isn't pregnant again.

[Ed M]

My thoughts on the barrels:

I have no proof, and no one at Kahr will admit it, but I bet that Walther does the rifling on ALL Kahr barrels.

The barrels are made from a piece of 3" diameter 416 stainless bar stock. Walther just bores and machines the rifling. Polygonal for the premium series, standard land and groove for the value series.

These 3" diameter rifled blanks then go to Kahr to be machined down to the final shape. Kahr likely doesn't even do that in house. There's a video on youtube of a Kahr barrel being machined, and it isn't from Kahr.

After machining, they get nickle plated - also not likely being done by Kahr. All Kahr probably does in the manufacturing process is polish up the chamber, bore and feed ramp in house.

When I asked about this at the mothership, they wouldn't give me an answer - they just smiled. I wanted to see the production line, but alas, no joy.

The days of manufacturing an entire gun in house are pretty much gone, IMO.

[SlowBurn]

Gunblast reviewed each gun (years apart) and measured velocities. You can google if curious. The velocities varied a lot between different cartridges. However for the "same loads" I counted 3 where the P380 was faster, and 2 where the CW380 was faster. Since the two reviews were years apart, I suspect it had more to do with factors such as air temp and humidity, and different lots of the "same" ammo, than with the barrel.

All I can say is I've owned both the P380 and the CW380 and they shoot the same for me. Best shooting guns that size I've ever tried (and I've tried a lot of pocket 380s) but I can't tell any difference in function between them.

[b4uqzme]

I found some velocity data...not much difference...but there is some difference. Still nothing about accuracy though...

http://www.ballisticsbytheinch.com/rifling.html

[kenemoore]

To me.... The major difference is in the fit and finish. I think the P series gets a little more secondary work, parts are not as rough, sharp edges removed..etc.. Just my opinion.
In my un-scientific tracking of complaints on this board, the P's seem to have less issues. But, it could be because less are sold.

[kahrbrian]

Read some older posts that concluded the poly rifling did not make a difference in performance. It only really makes it easier to clean, which also may give it longer Service life.

[CCHGN]

I've often thought what a man I would be to completely wear out a carry gun. I'm not sure it can be done.

Not sure what you mean by "worn out" ( we replace parts as needed, don't we? ) I think it can be done, if you shoot IDPA and shoot what ya carry...lol I've worn out a S&W mod66 revolver 'til it's not safe to shoot. Then went to a Ruger SP101.

[CCHGN]

This is from the web:

Hexagonal polygonal rifling.

A number of advantages are claimed by the supporters of polygonal rifling. These include:

• Not compromising the barrel's thickness in the area of each groove as with traditional rifling.
• Providing a better gas seal around the projectile as polygonal bores tend to have a slightly smaller bore area, which translates into more efficient use of the combustion gases trapped behind the bullet,^[4] slightly greater (consistency in) muzzle velocities and slightly increased accuracy.^[1]
• Less bullet deformation, resulting in reduced drag on the bullet when traveling through the barrel which helps to increase muzzle velocity.
• Reduced buildup of copper or lead within the barrel which results in easier maintenance characteristics.
• Less sensitive to stress concentration induced barrel failure.
• Prolonged barrel life.

My thing about Kahr polygonal barrel is the words "match grade". To me that means better crowning and specs.

[kahrbrian]

Unless “match grade” is defined, it is undefined. It may mean something or it may be just a marketing term. No one has demonstrated that it means anything to make it “better.”

[CCHGN]

Unless “match grade” is defined, it is undefined. It may mean something or it may be just a marketing term. No one has demonstrated that it means anything to make it “better.”

Imo, "Match Grade" IS defined in the gun industry, as much as the 3 "Cs" are in the Diamond industry. A google search will show that in the gun industry, "Match Grade" means higher quality parts, made to a more strict tolerance, with better attention to detail. A match grade barrel, will be beefier, the chamber will have a tighter tolerance, the barrel fitted to the slide better and the crown cut more precisely, all pointing to better accuracy and longer life. Look at a Springfield M1A, with a "match grade" barrel, it will cost 50% more than a similar rifle without the "Match Grade" barrel. Pro shooters demand "match Grade" barrels. Folks at Nowlin and Thompson Contender can show how much better a "match grade" barrel is.