The barrels - what IS the real deal?

[CCHGN]

This might help: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HrmWN0igJY0

[kahrbrian]

Show the difference WRT Kahr, and you have a case.

[weemsf]

Polygonal barrels supposedly offer better velocity. In a short barrel pistol, I do not think accuracy is going to be noticeably different.

[CCHGN]

show the difference wrt kahr, and you have a case.

wrt?

[CCHGN]

Polygonal barrels supposedly offer better velocity. In a short barrel pistol, I do not think accuracy is going to be noticeably different.

Better velocity, less deformation=better accuracy However, short barreled pistols aren't designed for accuracy. SB pistols=belly gun Speaking of short barrels, where is the line? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HIwVK_FxGZk

[kahrbrian]

The question is: "Is it a discernible difference". And this requires evidence, and the evidence is thin. Lots of target guns out there without polygonal rifling, and plenty of deformation. And... these are all compact guns or smaller.

[CCHGN]

The question is: "Is it a discernible difference". And this requires evidence, and the evidence is thin. Lots of target guns out there without polygonal rifling, and plenty of deformation. And... these are all compact guns or smaller.

Well, my question is, who's doing the discerning? I showed the advantages of the polygonal and a video where the CEO of Lothar said that match grade barrels are more accurate. I own and shoot and on the M1A forum and most all shooting forums, ALL agree that match grade barrels are superior. That comes from those that shoot in competitions, where accuracy and longevity, etc. are mandatory. That's good enough for me. YMMV.

[kahrbrian]

Show the difference WRT Kahr, and you have a case.

This, and from reviews of actual Kah pistols and owners, there is really no difference.

Do you really think a guy from a premium barrel manufacturer won’t tell you that they make a difference?

[berettabone]

What a surprise that the CEO of Lothar would tout the poly barrel accuracy. In rifles, yes, just like cold bore, warm bore...............in a firearm with a 4" barrel or less, hardly. A person couldn't hold a handgun still enough to notice anything. Then again, there are people out there who believe that most conceal carry people shoot and train on a regular basis. It depends on which earth your from.

[Bawanna]

Do I need to create a demilitarized zone for you two? Be kind to bawanna and cut us some slack.

My immense leader is making me do incredibly stupid worthless stuff today, worse than normal and I don't need this kind of abuse ya know?

[CCHGN]

Do I need to create a demilitarized zone for you two? Be kind to bawanna and cut us some slack.

My immense leader is making me do incredibly stupid worthless stuff today, worse than normal and I don't need this kind of abuse ya know?

What? he's the one following me around. I can't help that.

[CCHGN]

This, and from reviews of actual Kah pistols and owners, there is really no difference.

Do you really think a guy from a premium barrel manufacturer won’t tell you that they make a difference?

OK, well, if you don't believe , then I can't help you. Agnostics want God to physically touch them or else they won't believe.I don't need that. I have faith. I guess if one carries a pistol for 40 yrs and never shoot it, then it doesn't matter what barrel is in there, but folks who shoot alot , wants the best parts they can get, in their guns. There's alot of folks who'll say that MIMS parts are ok (Kahr), but I disagree with that. I have seem broken MIMS parts under a microscope and have seen the bubbles and debris and uneven tempering, etc. Fine, you carry a gun with a plain barrel and MIMS parts and I won't begrudge you, but let me carry mine with a match grade barrel and forged or milled parts, ok? There's folks that say a Jennings or Hi point is just fine. OK, they can have it, but not me. There's folks that say 440 stamped for a knife is ok, fine , they can buy $10 knives all day long. For me, my knives are D2 and forged. They both will cut, so who cares? I do. Some folks will say that Black and Decker tools are just fine and Harbor Freight is the best place to buy tools. I've been in Construction for over 30 yrs and won't own anything but Dewalt and my chainsaw is a Stihl. IF you ask me for evidence, all can tell you is my own 30 yrs of experience. I used every kind and had most fail on me, I've never had a Dewalt fail on me. That's all I need. If the top shooters in the World say a match grade barrel is superior, I believe it. Each to his own. YMMV.

[kahrbrian]

My point is belief SHOULD be based on evidence. There is no evidence shown that the "match grade barrel" in a Kahr delivers noticeable difference in performance - accuracy or longevity. It might be easier to clean. But in a 4" or less barrel, there is no evident difference - I believe there is enough evidence of that right here in this thread.

Lets compare barrels to barrels, and not get side-tracked on MIM vs. forged/milled.

I just don't think people ought to 'get hooked' on the 'match grade' moniker, and pass up a good gun that shoots just as well.

[CCHGN]

My point is belief SHOULD be based on evidence. There is no evidence shown that the "match grade barrel" in a Kahr delivers noticeable difference in performance - accuracy or longevity. It might be easier to clean. But in a 4" or less barrel, there is no evident difference - I believe there is enough evidence of that right here in this thread.

Lets compare barrels to barrels, and not get side-tracked on MIM vs. forged/milled.

I just don't think people ought to 'get hooked' on the 'match grade' moniker, and pass up a good gun that shoots just as well.

Well, we can't discuss anything if it all has to be on YOUR terms. You seem to have everything figured out with preconceived notions and I suspect your mind is closed any new concepts. For instance, you to say that belief SHOULD be based on evidence, but that's not necessarily true. Do you believe that there's other Planets out there, that could be just like Earth? If so, why? You don't have concrete evidence. OR it could be that the evidence is there, but you simply reject it, 'cause it doesn't fit your (mis)perception of "evidence". Like I said, perhaps you want the "Burning Bush". I pointed out that ALL Bulls eye shooters, pro competition shooters, military and LEO snipers,etc have "match Grade" barrels in their guns. Now, if there's NO difference, why is that? Are you saying that they ALL are just buying into some false hype? Nope, I'm positive that they all have match grade barrels because there IS something to it. It's foolish to ignore the experience of others. That is the basis of a lot of learning. You ignore the evidence I presented, so you want some kind of evidence that you have concocted in your own mind. You want to dismiss the very concepts that makes match grade barrel better than plain ones, like the CEO of Lothar explained. You simply dismissed him because YOU conclude that he automatically has ulterior motives (and nothing important to say). That just shows your cynicism. The whole point is that the difference IS the process in which it's made, produces a superior barrel and it's not just about accuracy, but also about durability and reliability. You claim that folks will "pass up" a gun because it doesn't have match grade barrel in it. Where is the same evidence, that you demand, for that? BTW, Kahr T,P and K series DO have match grade barrels. I have a CT40 and put in a match grade barrel and a milled slide stop from a T40, but see, I'm a "make lemonade out of lemons" kind of guy. I bought a Kimber CDP Pro, but found out it had MIMS parts in it. Did I throw the gun away? NO, I love the size of that pistol, the looks and the way they "melted" the edges, etc., so I simply replaced the MIMS parts with Wilson Combat "Bulletproof", forged parts and put a Bobtail on it. MIMS parts are a process that came up to save money, NOT because it's superior. Match grade is a more expensive process to make the barrel superior.

[Armybrat]

Serious question:
Do MIM parts have a history of breaking or are less reliable in general?

I'll hang up & listen (don't want to get involved in the back & forth).