Stopping Power - What do LEO's Use?

[espresso]

I also buy the 50-round boxes of Gold Dots because they are cheaper for practice and to use in my 5" .45's.

Wynn

I've looked around town and haven't been able to find any 50 Rd boxes of self defense ammo (9mm) other than WWB from Wally world. Are you buying this at a brick n mortar store or online?

[Bill K]

This is probably just urban legend but I've seen written that ball ammo winds up being more lethal because it takes more shots to stop the action and with pass through more bleeding out. Make any sense?

[wyntrout]

I've looked around town and haven't been able to find any 50 Rd boxes of self defense ammo (9mm) other than WWB from Wally world. Are you buying this at a brick n mortar store or online?

I haven't looked locally. You can find LE-type 50-round boxes of Duty ammo at gun shows and online. The Short-Barrel version is only available in 20-round boxes at $1 to $2 a bullet, depending on the seller. That stuff is usually marked up a lot. I try to get the short barrel version for as close to $20 a box as I can. The duty ammo can be found for $27, give or take a few bucks, or more... online. You have to search and see who has what you want and the best prices, including shipping and no tax. Some sellers only sell to LE or military... active or retired.

Sometimes you hear of good deals here on the forum. I try to pass along any deals I find, but have found some good buys mentioned here.

From time to time, Cabela's has $20 off coupons or Free shipping on orders over $99 or $150... varies. Sometimes they do that and have stuff on sale or clearance, too. When I can meet all of my objectives on good deals.

If you're buying a case, or half a case, or just enough to meet the dollar limit, you can get free shipping or better.

When I buy defense ammo, I buy the Duty stuff in 50-round boxes for the range and longer barreled guns, and the Short Barrel version for CCW.

Here are some online sellers. The prices vary and are not always bargains, but some place to start. They are not in any order... cheapest or whatever. I've used ammoengine, but they aren't very inclusive or exhaustive... leaving a lot to be desired.

http://www.ammoengine.com/find/ammo/9mm

http://www.ammunitiontogo.com/index.php

http://www.cabelas.com/catalog/brows...on/_/N-1100189 *** coupon now $5 shipping on orders >$99.

http://www.prestostore.com/cgi-bin/s...pig27&ct=65200

http://www.sgammo.com/catalog/pistol...ition/9mm-9x19

http://bellsouthpwp2.net/s/c/scgunguy/rangerlist.htm

http://www.a1ammo.com/ammo-form/inde...TOKEN=38661149

http://www.kylesgunshop.com/store.ph...16&per=5&num=5

http://www.ammoman.com/

http://www.gtdist.com/Category.aspx?Category=GUNAM

http://www.sportsmansguide.com/net/s...ing.aspx?d=121

http://www.the-armory.com/shopsite_s...html/ammo.html

http://www.grafs.com/retail/catalog/...y/categoryId/1

This is not by any means a complete list. You can Google or search for the ammo you want. It takes time to find what you want at the price you want, but it's a place to start.

Save your own bookmarks and "join" their news letters or deal alerts, too.

Wynn I copied this and posted it under the Ammunition Sub-Forum, too. If I think of any more, I'll post them at my Ammunition thread... and anyone can add theirs, too, keeping the thread bumped from time to time:

http://kahrtalk.com/showthread.php?p=136527#post136527



.

[DKD]

KNKALI,

Your question regarding FMJ bullets VS HP is bit more complicated. Yes FMJ over penetrate, however a 9mm FMJ vs a 45 ACP FMJ given equal muzzle energy...the 45 wins hand down as far as stopping power. This is due to the mass of the bullet and its bullet diameter, which has the ability to transmit its enegy more effectivley to the target.
Second point... when two shots are in the same immediate area, there are two factors one encounters, first is not only the size of the permanent wound channel, there is also the temporary wound channel called the crushed cavity which disrupts the surrounding tissues and vital organs as well. In any event hollow points do a better job than FMJ's and tender to penetrate a bit less to minimize the effects of over penetration in unitended secondary targets.

[espresso]

thanks wyntrout, I'll look online or check the local gun show that comes aroud here a few times a year.

[kayl]

Part time LEO here-
Current agency issues the 180gr .40 Gold Dot
I carry the 147gr 9mm Gold Dot in my CM9 and the Gold Dot Short Barrel .38 in my J-Frame.

My former full time agency issued the 230gr .45 Hydra-Shok

In my experience, Gold Dot is the most common LE used round.

[TriggerMan]

This is probably just urban legend but I've seen written that ball ammo winds up being more lethal because it takes more shots to stop the action and with pass through more bleeding out. Make any sense?

Better ask, "Lethal to whom?" What is happening while you try to add to the round count. Each over penetrating FMJ has an attorney's name on it.

[DeaconKC]

Issued carry rounds for us are Federal Hydrashocks, .40 S&W 180 grain.

[hss.strat]

@BillK,

The question of lethality is going to be open to urban legend. There's millions of factors that make up the likelihood that any one person will survive any situation. Blood loss may be a more likely killer than internal tissue damage and force transfer into the target. But I'm sure everyone here agrees with me when I say that I don't envision shooting someone just to kill them. If I'm going to shoot a human being it is going to be to stop them from putting my life or another life in peril. So if you're looking at it from that perspective, what is going to stop someone sooner, the obvious answer will be the bullet that transfers 100% of it's energy into the target and does the most soft tissue damage upon entry. Which is the JHP.

[ORSalesRep]

While the whole issue of "stopping power" will undoubtedly be discussed in anecdotes and lead to a caliber war, I can say for sure the LEOs use HP. There are lots of rounds which are specifically marketed as LE ONLY.

HPs attempt to avoid over penetration. They expand and deliver more energy to the inside of the target. They are safer in that innocent bystanders will not be hit but also it will take fewer shots to stop a threat.

Certain rounds in the Winchester Ranger line and the Federal HST line are only sold to LE. There are others.

It is possible to buy them if a dealer gets an over run on an unfullfilled order. I buy 'em.

I have purchased Federal HST online and I am not a LEO. Right now though my preference is the Winchester PDX1 line. The core and Jacket are bonded and if it is good enough to pass the FBI testing and win the contract from them, it is good enough for me.

[jocko]

I believe

Part time LEO here-
Current agency issues the 180gr .40 Gold Dot
I carry the 147gr 9mm Gold Dot in my CM9 and the Gold Dot Short Barrel .38 in my J-Frame.

My former full time agency issued the 230gr .45 Hydra-Shok

In my experience, Gold Dot is the most common LE used round.

our state of Indiana carrys 124 gold dots in theire G17..

[Bill K]

@BillK,

The question of lethality is going to be open to urban legend. There's millions of factors that make up the likelihood that any one person will survive any situation. Blood loss may be a more likely killer than internal tissue damage and force transfer into the target. But I'm sure everyone here agrees with me when I say that I don't envision shooting someone just to kill them. If I'm going to shoot a human being it is going to be to stop them from putting my life or another life in peril. So if you're looking at it from that perspective, what is going to stop someone sooner, the obvious answer will be the bullet that transfers 100% of it's energy into the target and does the most soft tissue damage upon entry. Which is the JHP.

Please don't misunderstand me... I'm not advocating ball ammo (well maybe .380 winter time with folks wearing heavy clothing). Just asking the question.

And yes, we shoot to stop the action. When the action stops the shooting stops - in the ideal world.

[knkali]

Better ask, "Lethal to whom?" What is happening while you try to add to the round count. Each over penetrating FMJ has an attorney's name on it.

Yep. Here you go:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-z9hv...eature=related

[ltxi]

This is probably just urban legend but I've seen written that ball ammo winds up being more lethal because it takes more shots to stop the action and with pass through more bleeding out. Make any sense?

Not to me.

[QuercusMax]

The question of lethality is going to be open to urban legend. There's millions of factors that make up the likelihood that any one person will survive any situation.

I think that hss has hit the nail on the head, at least with the excerpt above.

The debate on this subject goes on and on, often supported by various mathematics, photos and diagrams on every discussion board I have looked at. Various calibers, bullet types, and brands are often touted as creating the largest cavity, etc. But in the end, we all know that a well-placed .22 shot will be far more effective than a poorly-aimed large-caliber hollow-point.

This debate reminds me of various car ads that claim their car is the safest because of of having more air bags or a better result in some staged crash test, but in a real crash there are so many factors in play that all those theoretical advantages fade away.

Put another way, if someone comes after me with any gun, I'm going to be pretty worried regardless of what type of ammo he is using - or even caliber.