Stopping Power - What do LEO's Use?

[wyntrout]

The movies have long given the mistaken impression that a bullet through the heart or nearby will drop a BG in the blink of an eye. The ONLY thing that will do that is a good hit to the central nervous system... brain or spinal column high enough to cut off the arms and legs mobility. A sufficiently motivated BG... or one hyped up on drugs... can still kill you with a knife OR a gun. It's not the f***ing movies. A .22 through the heart can be "overlooked" long enough for someone to finish the task at hand. That's why you don't wait and see if the last shot is stopping the BG... you keep shooting until he has stopped being a threat... as lying on the floor. It's also why larger caliber bullets that get their attention are better man stoppers!

It's like shooting zombies... if chest shots don't work, why keep shooting center of mass... armor?? Head shot = lights out!

Wynn

[TriggerMan]

I have purchased Federal HST online and I am not a LEO. Right now though my preference is the Winchester PDX1 line. The core and Jacket are bonded and if it is good enough to pass the FBI testing and win the contract from them, it is good enough for me.

My experience with gov't contracts is that they go to the lowest (cheapest) bidder, not always the best product. The shape of the Winchester PDX1 has been a problem in a few guns, usually polishing clears that up. I've tried PDX in 45ACP and they fed well.

[hss.strat]

Please don't misunderstand me... I'm not advocating ball ammo (well maybe .380 winter time with folks wearing heavy clothing). Just asking the question.

And yes, we shoot to stop the action. When the action stops the shooting stops - in the ideal world.

Understood. Also, I wasn't trying to make a PSA for the "I shoot to stop the threat" mantra. Sufficed to say (and before I get misinterpreted again) I agree with Wynn. A slow bleed out takes time, which is what you don't have in a life or death situation.

[JFootin]

Understood. Also, I wasn't trying to make a PSA for the "I shoot to stop the threat" mantra. Sufficed to say (and before I get misinterpreted again) I agree with Wynn. A slow bleed out takes time, which is what you don't have in a life or death situation.

Seems like exploding bullets would be the answer for a quick stop. The liberals and lawyers need to get out of it. Banning HP bullets and stuff! A gun is a deadly weapon. A man stopper. Anything that can improve the quickness and effectiveness of it will save LEOs lives. JMHO.

[Barth]

Seems like exploding bullets would be the answer for a quick stop. The liberals and lawyers need to get out of it. Banning HP bullets and stuff! A gun is a deadly weapon. A man stopper. Anything that can improve the quickness and effectiveness of it will save LEOs lives. JMHO.

[MW surveyor]

Those phased 40 mega watt lasers always work!

[muggsy]

I apologize in advance if this topic has already been covered, but reading several recent posts has raised this question in my mind: Stopping power of chambered rounds...Are JHP's superior to FMJ's... and what do LEO's use? Are LEO's even permitted to use JHP rounds?

Stop worrying about stopping power and keep shooting until the perp stops moving. Works every time it's tried.

[OldLincoln]

A lot of folks like me just want to see a relative comparison of striking power between calibers. I saw the Hickok45 video where he shoots several at the same steel swinging target one after the other. It is not scientific nor indicative of anything except one caliber seems to hit the plate with greater energy than another.

[muggsy]

A lot of folks like me just want to see a relative comparison of striking power between calibers. I saw the Hickok45 video where he shoots several at the same steel swinging target one after the other. It is not scientific nor indicative of anything except one caliber seems to hit the plate with greater energy than another.

How hard it hits is no where near as important as where it hits.

[joshh]

as far as "stopping power" is concerned the theory is the more energy transferred and larger the wound cavity = more stopping power. an expanding round is going to do both as well as reducing the issue of passing thru the target and doing unintentional harm. leos can and (as youve read here) use hollow points because they are more effective. the feds have gone with the win pdx1 line for a few reasons and is what most leo's i know are carrying and is what i carry now (few yrs) too. here is a quote from their site:
"The new Winchester Supreme Elite Bonded PDX1, which was chosen by the FBI as their primary service round, is now available in a full line of popular handgun calibers. The Bonded PDX1 is engineered to maximize terminal ballistics, as defined by the demanding FBI test protocol, which simulates real-world threats. The new Winchester Bonded PDX is offered in 9mm, 40 Smith & Wesson, 45 automatic and .38 special. "

[TheTman]

I don't understand this concept of for LEO use only. I could see if maybe they were exploding bullets or would go through a bullet proof vest, but the ones I've seen are just hollow point bullets. Are our lives not as important as those of a LEO? Should I not have access to the best possible ammunition to save my life and those of my loved ones and friends? Of course I think LEO's should have the best ammo available, but why am I not allowed to buy the same ammo? What makes it so special that only LEO's can have it?

That reminds me of an episode of COPS where they busted a person for selling nickle bags of marijuana, and one of the officers was having a total meltdown cause he found a shotgun shell marked For LEO use only. The alleged dealer was being very cooperative, and offered no resistance, and definately not going to get into a shoot out or anything, but the one officer was really having a hissy fit over one shotgun shell. I'd not heard of Shotgun shells for LEO use only before. How much more lethal can you make one? Seems like 00 buckshot should stop about anything it's pointed at.

[Barth]

Marketing maybe???

I don't understand this concept of for LEO use only. I could see if maybe they were exploding bullets or would go through a bullet proof vest, but the ones I've seen are just hollow point bullets. Are our lives not as important as those of a LEO? Should I not have access to the best possible ammunition to save my life and those of my loved ones and friends? Of course I think LEO's should have the best ammo available, but why am I not allowed to buy the same ammo? What makes it so special that only LEO's can have it?

That reminds me of an episode of COPS where they busted a person for selling nickle bags of marijuana, and one of the officers was having a total meltdown cause he found a shotgun shell marked For LEO use only. The alleged dealer was being very cooperative, and offered no resistance, and definately not going to get into a shoot out or anything, but the one officer was really having a hissy fit over one shotgun shell. I'd not heard of Shotgun shells for LEO use only before. How much more lethal can you make one? Seems like 00 buckshot should stop about anything it's pointed at.

Some believe it's just marketing.
LE ammo is not illegal to buy or have by non LE folks - like me.
It's simply manufacturer policy to not sell directly to citizens.
The LE ammo generally comes in 50 round boxes.
So it's usually much less expensive, per bullet, than the civilian packaged 20 SD ammo.
Plus I'm not at all sure that Speer Duty GDHP isn't identical to regular GDHP.

Marketing is a funny thing.
And knowledge really is power.

A) Storm Lake G27 40-9mm 3.46" Conversion Barrel = $160
B) Storm Lake G27 40-9mm 4.16" Conversion Barrel = $175
C) Storm Lake G23 40-9mm 4.02" Conversion Barrel = $160

Since G23 barrels drop in and work in G27s guess what I did???

[yatyas42]

We are currently issued the ranger SXT or PXT? 147gr (9mm). I carry that in my MandP on duty and my CW off duty. Last year we were issued the Speer Gold Dots. I think that we go with which ever one we get a better deal on, cause I think there really about the same as far as lethality and reliability go. I think we had some Federal HST's a few years ago too.

[Russ]

I carry Gold Dot 9 mm 124 grain jhp +P short barrel in my Beretta Nano. Very expensive and I have only shot 30 rounds but all the reports I have read Speer makes hands down the best bonded bullet that will consistently retain most of its weight upon impact and more law enforcement use Speer than any other brand which is enough for me to carry Speer Gold Dot.

Price is a non issue for a carry round. My round is more than $1 each and if it was $5 and the best I would still purchase.

Russ

[jocko]

pretty hard to beat the corbon all copper b arnes bullet also i their dpx load. retains all of its weight and full petal expansion. not cheap either. MOst good ammo is not cheap in price, but normally high in quality.