Are Kahrs plentiful? Why are some other brands not?

[QuercusMax]

Over in another thread, JFootin mentioned that he had gotten an e-mail from Bud's saying that gun sales were brisk and prices are probably going up. That made me wonder -

In the places I shop (which does include Bud's, since I don't have a lot of retail outlets around here), I've noticed that some brands/models of guns are always easy to come by, while some are not. Just taking Bud's as an example, most Kahr models are almost always available (with a few exceptions), while Colt and Kimber (for example) are hard to get.

Just makes me wonder why this is. Is it because Bud's has a strong connection with Kahr and not with the others, or is it because Kahrs are plentiful and some other brands are not, or because Kahr is efficient enough to respond to demand while the others are not, or ???

[jocko]

I do think Buds is probabaly one of kahrs tops distributors..

[getsome]

When our fearless Imposter in Chief gets elected to his 2nd term in November just see how many guns are available in the market...I believe there will be another ammo run/shortage like we had last time so if you want a gun, nows the time to buy while they are still available and priced right...Same with ammo, get it while it's there...

[TheTman]

I talked to a dealer about Davidson's Inc. (Gallery of Guns) and he said that you have two reasons that a gun is always sold out. 1 is that it's a very brisk seller, and they don't take the time to update their page when they get a shipment in as was the case with my M&P, and the other is that they are slow sellers, and they don't keep them in stock, but can order them for you. Say for instance some of the nicer 1911's that cost upwards of a $1000, like the Bill Wilson's, and Les Baer's, they just don't sell a lot so they don't keep them in stock. I notice Bud's doesn't have many of the pricier 1911's in stock either.

[jocko]

davidson is a big seller of kahrs to. forget about them. I would hate to think how manyguns a week go out of kahr to buds and davidsons..

30 years ago Davidson was one of my biggest distrubutors for about any gun made but that was way before the internet took over and places like davidsons and buds beganselling to anyone at the same price as I a lowly small ass dealer way paying for them. These small gun dealers have a very hard time keeping competetive with the internet. These big gun makers would rather package up 200 kahrs a week and send them to davidson or buds then package up2 kahrs at a time to 100 dealers, bookkeeping is far less work, collections are not as much as an issue...

We also back then did't have a ganer mt or a cabelos in every little town either, so people tended to visit and stick with the small local dealers if only for conveniene and when u are the only game in town, then ur prices seem OK.

small gun shops are going by the wayside like small home town car dealers. If ur not a mega dealer, then alof of these product makers just don't want to bother.. A shame to, for we now call this PROGRESS. Just sayin.

[JFootin]

I contacted Kel-Tec about no availability for the 9mm Sub 2000 that takes Glock mags. They said they were maxed out on production and didn't have room to fit any more employees. Also, said they are looking to move to a larger facility. Of course, they keep the bread and butter items in good supply, but let the demand for the lesser selling items go unquenched.

[CJB]

From years and years in the industry... I can say the following with certainty:

a. Whatever you cant get, gets expensive.
b. You can't get everything all the time.
c. Some things you can never get.

To understand all that, you have to understand the basic manufacturing marketing cycle. That is - jobbers.

Brand X says, we're taking orders from jobbers. Jobbers lay in orders for items, and these are scheduled in and around and during "regular" production (good sellers) and house accounts (if they do those, like for certain LE groups).

It can very well be that an item in a catalog is never made that year. Why? Jobber backed out, or... production time was just not available, even with best intent. They wont sacrifice production time for oddballs if they're snowed under. So when you want that Ruger .257 Roberts rifle... good luck. Its in the book, but they may only make 25 or so, one short run to fill a jobber order, and thats it! Or make none, because delays or other such nonsense has left them no time to do complete the order. Happens (a lot). Keep in mind too, that the factories will not stock much, and only stock popular items. Jobbers are the stocking arm of the factories (in a manner of speaking). Jobbers take the market risk, factories just produce. Jobbers sell to other distributors. Some "distributors" are also jobbers - aka Davidsons, etc.

Make sense?

As for the "can't get, gets expensive" its supply and demand and market conditions. When I got into the gun industry, it was about 1979-1980. You could not get a stainless Chief's for love or money. MSRP, $190 as I recall. We paid distributors well over twice that for the few we could get, and sold them for $599. Ouch. Companies like Ellett Bros and RSR had a nice policy..... "We'll sell you a Model 60 at todays rate, IF you buy $1000 of leather at the same time" (or other such nonsense....). Thats market conditions and supply/demand at its finest. I got my model 60 when production caught up, mid 80's, and paid dealer-net, which was close to $200 at that time (msrp was up to about $300ish).

[ltxi]

davidson is a big seller of kahrs to. forget about them. I would hate to think how manyguns a week go out of kahr to buds and davidsons..

30 years ago Davidson was one of my biggest distrubutors for about any gun made but that was way before the internet took over and places like davidsons and buds beganselling to anyone at the same price as I a lowly small ass dealer way paying for them. These small gun dealers have a very hard time keeping competetive with the internet. These big gun makers would rather package up 200 kahrs a week and send them to davidson or buds then package up2 kahrs at a time to 100 dealers, bookkeeping is far less work, collections are not as much as an issue...

We also back then did't have a ganer mt or a cabelos in every little town either, so people tended to visit and stick with the small local dealers if only for conveniene and when u are the only game in town, then ur prices seem OK.

small gun shops are going by the wayside like small home town car dealers. If ur not a mega dealer, then alof of these product makers just don't want to bother.. A shame to, for we now call this PROGRESS. Just sayin.

Not sure I understand...seriously. I buy from Davidson's through my small local dealer. We both seem happy with the arrangement.

[rjt123]

Make sense?

You had me at "Jobbers".

[QuercusMax]

Make sense?

CJB, Thanks for explaining this. Every business has its methods and quirks that often are not obvious to the outsider, so this little peek behind the curtain helps me understand better what is going on when nobody ever seems to have in stock that specific gun I have been looking for.

It's sure a good thing that the supply chains for common items like groceries or pharmaceuticals do not work this same way ... I'm trying to imagine having to go to the grocery store week after week to see if they have finally gotten in any pickles or ketchup... Reminds me of pictures you would see of shopping in the old Soviet Union.

The *only* good thing I can say about scarcity (of both guns and money) is that they are forces of moderation.

[jocko]

oh ur so so

From years and years in the industry... I can say the following with certainty:

a. Whatever you cant get, gets expensive.
b. You can't get everything all the time.
c. Some things you can never get.

To understand all that, you have to understand the basic manufacturing marketing cycle. That is - jobbers.

Brand X says, we're taking orders from jobbers. Jobbers lay in orders for items, and these are scheduled in and around and during "regular" production (good sellers) and house accounts (if they do those, like for certain LE groups).

It can very well be that an item in a catalog is never made that year. Why? Jobber backed out, or... production time was just not available, even with best intent. They wont sacrifice production time for oddballs if they're snowed under. So when you want that Ruger .257 Roberts rifle... good luck. Its in the book, but they may only make 25 or so, one short run to fill a jobber order, and thats it! Or make none, because delays or other such nonsense has left them no time to do complete the order. Happens (a lot). Keep in mind too, that the factories will not stock much, and only stock popular items. Jobbers are the stocking arm of the factories (in a manner of speaking). Jobbers take the market risk, factories just produce. Jobbers sell to other distributors. Some "distributors" are also jobbers - aka Davidsons, etc.

Make sense?

As for the "can't get, gets expensive" its supply and demand and market conditions. When I got into the gun industry, it was about 1979-1980. You could not get a stainless Chief's for love or money. MSRP, $190 as I recall. We paid distributors well over twice that for the few we could get, and sold them for $599. Ouch. Companies like Ellett Bros and RSR had a nice policy..... "We'll sell you a Model 60 at todays rate, IF you buy $1000 of leather at the same time" (or other such nonsense....). Thats market conditions and supply/demand at its finest. I got my model 60 when production caught up, mid 80's, and paid dealer-net, which was close to $200 at that time (msrp was up to about $300ish).

right, I can remember when the Model 60's came out in the 70's. the only way I cold get one from our distrubutor54 was to buy 3 Smith dogts along with it. Like 22/32 kit guns or the 342 terrers, and then I would get one Model 60. I hate dit but the distrubutor/jobber back then told me that heh, we had to buy alot of Smnithgs dogs to, andu just can't pick the cream of the crop and expect us to eat these losers. I had that 32 terrer in mygun case the day I sold the business and that had to be over 25 years ago. It looked used from my wiping it down for over 25 years. Ain't right but that was sthe way it was back then.. I bought from elliott bros and RSR for years..

[CJB]

You had me at "Jobbers".

Jobbers are usually also distributors, but not always.

Jobbers are large ordering and redistribution companies. Each factory has a select group of jobbers they deal with. Its an exclusive group, factories dont really want to deal with all that many folks on the sales end of things. The jobbers talk to distributors, trying to evaluate the market trends and ask for production of what distributors want. Distributors can, and do, purchase from multiple jobbers. Jobbers will place the actual production orders with the factory. The factory schedules production based on jobber orders. Any slack time, or perhaps for multiple jobber orders of the same product - the factory may decide to over produce, in order to reap the benefit of production efficiency. Or... they may cancel (indefinitely delay) jobber orders in order to keep production of a popular item going. Its all a supply/demand/time game.

Some factories are their own jobbers...? What? Yup. Some factories may have a sales arm that arranges orders for the goods to be produced. Or, the "company jobber" may be the LE branch, or military branch of the company.

And, some factories go 100 percent through their own sales company. In that case, they might be considered a "super-jobber" taking orders and pre-orders in order to allow the factory to schedule production.

~~~

Internally - you may have Jiffy Firearms Company, Inc., which consists of JF Manufacturing, Inc, JF Sales, Inc, JF Exports, Inc, JF Amalgamated Law Enforcement and Military Supply, Inc... etc. All one company, all separate companies. Like different drawers in the same desk. Even though JF Sales is part of Jiffy Firearms Company.... it still "buys" product from JF Manufacturing, and resells it to its distribution channel, which sells it to dealers.

~~~~

Why so complex an arrangement? Because the factory cannot contend with small orders. It must produce lots and lots of the same item to maintain production efficiency and contain costs. They simply cannot produce everything, and will not... unless some jobber provides an order for it in sufficient quantity to justify production.

Make more sense?

[TheTman]

I would think Kahr's would not be in as high as demand at the moment, since they are a single stack pistol holding less than 10 rounds, while people are getting the higher capacity double stack pistols, 15-20 shots while they still can.
I looked at the auction sites, and the "black rifle" is a hot seller with people paying a lot more than they are probably worth. Most were bid close to $2000.

[jocko]

probably right, once the high capacity semi's are gone, then the 10 and under guns will have some more takers.

[AC7880]

Old post below in the quote - but sounds like you pretty much nailed it.

When our fearless Imposter in Chief gets elected to his 2nd term in November just see how many guns are available in the market...I believe there will be another ammo run/shortage like we had last time so if you want a gun, nows the time to buy while they are still available and priced right...Same with ammo, get it while it's there...