Obamacare

[muggsy]

I was cleaning my CM9 last night when this thought occurred to me. Did the US with a population of 314 million people really need to create a monstrous government bureaucracy to cover the 49 million people who didn't have healthcare insurance? Think about it and then vote republican.

[downtownv]

That decision was made long, long ago!

[Shark1007]

I was cleaning my PM45 last night and thinking, after seeing friends file bankruptcy from medical bills and then become completely dependant on taxpayer money, wouldn't it be a better idea to require some sort of health care and spend money here rather than killing our boys in Iraq and Afghanistan or giving the super wealthy tax breaks we don't get.

I guess the answer depends on if you buy the hype hook line and sinker or you know someone who might have lived if they had coverage.

Vote intelligently, be informed, nobody else can dictate your conscience or criticize your beliefs.

[downtownv]

Hmm Gun owner and Obama supporter seems like an oxymoron. Considering his gang would love to confiscate that PM45.....

[muggsy]

I was cleaning my PM45 last night and thinking, after seeing friends file bankruptcy from medical bills and then become completely dependant on taxpayer money, wouldn't it be a better idea to require some sort of health care and spend money here rather than killing our boys in Iraq and Afghanistan or giving the super wealthy tax breaks we don't get.

I guess the answer depends on if you buy the hype hook line and sinker or you know someone who might have lived if they had coverage.

Vote intelligently, be informed, nobody else can dictate your conscience or criticize your beliefs.

Living under tyranny is far worse than dying and there are far worse things than bankruptcy. You can recover from bankruptcy. You can't recover from Obamacare. President Obama has had three and a half years to pull our troops out of Afghanistan, close Gitmo, cut our deficit in half and reduce unemployment below 8%. He failed.

[O'Dell]

Living under tyranny is far worse than dying and there are far worse things than bankruptcy. You can recover from bankruptcy. You can't recover from Obamacare.

Amen, Brother muggsy!!

[kgturner]

Living under tyranny is far worse than dying and there are far worse things than bankruptcy.

Tell that to someone whose child or grandchild is dying because the family can't afford health insurance. Maybe at the funeral you can tell them that if they'd stayed in school, gone to college, got a better job, or worked harder, then they wouldn't have had to watch their eight year old daughter whither away and die from a disease that could've been treated. If only....

Kevin T

[Bawanna]

Nest to politics, insurance is probably my most hated subject.

The sad reality is insurance companies go all out to avoid paying claims. Insurance companies are heavily inhabited by lawyers.
In many cases your gonna die anyhow because the insurance company will come up with some lame excuse not to cover you.

Require it or make it the law and it gets even worse. What could be better for business that creating something and then creating a law that everyone has to buy it.

It's a huge never ending circle. The medical industry gouges and over charges and people allow it because insurance covers it but we all pay for that insurance one way or another.

Part of the reason for gouging in the medical industry is liability and guess where most of that comes from. LAWYERS.

Same with medical equipment. Take a wheelchair for example, a good manual, nothing terribly fancy one can set you back 3-4 grand. Nothing much different than a good mountain bke, that you can buy for 1000 for a really nice one but because it's a wheelchair, somebody might fall out and sue the company so we gotta pad it ALOT.

Even a wheelchair tire. I can get them at a bike shop for less than 10 bucks. At a medical provider, the only place insurance will pay for them they are 60.

I say monitor doctors better, find a way to eliminate frivolous lawsuits, get rid of doctors who get many complaints and get the medical cost down. The doctors might be even richer yet as they'll have to pay less insurance.
I got no problem with doctors being rich, but at the expense of ridiculous insurance premiums I sort of got an issue with.

Next time I'll discuss solving the high cost of fossil fuels and their part in stimulating the economy.............

[jeepster09]

Here is whats coming....

[chrish]

bad things happen every day to lots of people all over the world. it is NOT MY RESPONSIBILITY to provide health insurance or health care to folks that do not have it. it's that simple. this is not a complex question. you either believe in the govt taking care of everybody or you believe in people taking care of themselves. safety net for the poor is one thing, creating a system where people get free stuff is another.

i was cleaning my tp9 the other night thinking, you know, it's funny that many want the govt out of their bedroom and out of their womb but yet they somehow justify the govt having both hands in my pockets, wallet, and gun safe. now they are going to be in my doctors office too. interesting...

[Shark1007]

That's all easy to say if you're not the one needing help or know no one who needed and failed to achieve help.

I've found over the last 30 years or so that the biggest conservative hater types are among the most agressive when it's their Ox getting gored, so to speak.

I don't buy into the "he's gonna take my guns" story, but that's not the debate here, it was whether health care being required and, for those who have read the document, requiring insurance companies to rebate that not spent on claims is a good thing. I think it is, I've seen the good folks, not unlike yourselves go completely broke and helpless from unexpected medical bills.

I am one of those awful lawyers and I recall a debate where my client had two in their family that died from some horrible malady. Another that was diagnosed and killed herself and another, with better health insurance, who was saved by a surgeon at UCLA who was world renowned for being the guru and had done hundreds of the procedures. The insurance company declined to pay that doctor and found a general surgeon in Tampa that had done the procedure twice and they would only authorize him.

After agreeing to pay the airfare and the California doctor agreeing to accept whatever they would pay the Tampa guy, I still had to prepare to sue the insurance carrier before they relented. I charged the client zero, gave 'em extra money for their airfare and they lived.

Frivolous lawsuits are unprofitable for lawyers, no matter what your barber or friend tells you or you "heard" a story about. There are limits in place in most states that make the lawyer pay if they file a bogus suit and the client pays too.

Liability doesn't come from lawyers, it comes from bad acts and is enforced by lawyers. Could any of you afford to pay a lawyer an hourly rate to match dollars to an insurance company and have a fair fight? There are greedy lawyers and greedy clients, no kiddin, but they aren't the root. Responsibility is the key, if a Doctor doesn't follow the rules, he ought to pay, if an individual doesn't, it's their fault. It's a pretty simple analysis.

Bawanna, I like the way you think, you're a sharp guy with a reasoned attitude. If you could just make my PM45 work!!! Actually, I just got an XDS and am hoping it will fill the bill. I guess it could be worse, when I was a criminal investigator, I had a series 70 1911 that, anytime you clicked the thumb safety off, it would fire...

[molar]

Tell that to someone whose child or grandchild is dying because the family can't afford health insurance. Maybe at the funeral you can tell them that if they'd stayed in school, gone to college, got a better job, or worked harder, then they wouldn't have had to watch their eight year old daughter whither away and die from a disease that could've been treated. If only....

Kevin T

Insuring those who cannot truly afford coverage should be done at the state, not federal level. No eight year old in the state of Tennessee is going to die from a treatable disease due to lack of insurance. Tenncare, now know as cover TN was set up just for people who could not otherwise get coverage, whether due to pre-existing conditions or finances. It seems the blue states should follow Tennessee's lead and set up some kind of similar system. Oh wait, they can't because their liberal governments' have spent them into bankruptcy.

[Bawanna]

Whats wrong with your PM45? My memory isn't working to good. I don't recall reading any maladies.

I held an XDS last week and I liked it. Seemed like a really good gun. I wouldn't trade my PM45 for it but I wouldn't mind adding one as a running mate.

We'll get that PM45 running, I can assure you of that. PM or point me to the thread where you mentioned your issues and I'll form a posse.

[Bawanna]

Insuring those who cannot truly afford coverage should be done at the state, not federal level. No eight year old in the state of Tennessee is going to die from a treatable disease due to lack of insurance. Tenncare, now know as cover TN was set up just for people who could not otherwise get coverage, whether due to pre-existing conditions or finances. It seems the blue states should follow Tennessee's lead and set up some kind of similar system. Oh wait, they can't because their liberal governments' have spent them into bankruptcy.

I concur with this completely. It's a regional thing and yes many states could learn from many of the southern common sense states.

[muggsy]

Tell that to someone whose child or grandchild is dying because the family can't afford health insurance. Maybe at the funeral you can tell them that if they'd stayed in school, gone to college, got a better job, or worked harder, then they wouldn't have had to watch their eight year old daughter whither away and die from a disease that could've been treated. If only....

Kevin T

No one dies in this country from a lack of medical treatment. Those who are indigent are treated for free. Those of us who apply ourselves pay for those who don't. Don't try to lay a guilt trip on us or act as though we don't care. I care more than you do.