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**jeep45238** · 03-15-2010, 09:12 AM

I'd reccomend to stop keeping the pistol in a locked box that's dependent upon a functional battery, sensor, and nothing on your fingers when you're using it. I've been in a similar situation inside my home, and worse on the street, and I'm damn skippy happy that the box I used to keep things in at the time at home didn't malfunction on me - let alone if you happen to hear the noises when they're in your room. 1-2 seconds is way too much time.

Leave it in the open, or mount a holster to the furniture next to your bed so the trigger's protected, and it's a consistent fast easy reach.

**getupatree** · 03-15-2010, 09:23 AM

While I apprecaite your comments, that is not very responsible with a 3 year old in the house. Surely your not suggesting I do this with others in the home? Also, friends visit. When i was single it was a different story.

The box has a manual override and I have a key avail when needed. I can reach the box immediatly within arm's reach.

**jeep45238** · 03-15-2010, 09:30 AM

Yes, I'm suggesting it. Close/lock the bedroom door if needed. Teach/preach gun safety, do not make it the mystery item that kids will find and play with.

Haven't had a single issue with the 1.5 year old, the 5 year old, 7 year old, or 9 year old. They know I carry, they do not touch guns unless we're shooting in the back yard. Airsoft was a great primer until some of them got on real guns.

**ripley16** · 03-15-2010, 09:55 AM

If you have kids, and even if you don't, but especially if you have kids, you need to secure your firearms.

My house creeks and groans like a three hundred year old French farmhouse. A company of Marines could invade and I'd never know the difference.

**getupatree** · 03-15-2010, 09:56 AM

Well, to each his own but I personally do not leave loaded handguns where any child could physically access them. Mine will be taught safety but the OWNER has to paractice safety as well. Seems every accidental shooting starts with a quote "I never thought....". I do respect your personal opinion and as 2nd ammendment protectors we need to stick together, back to the topic however:

My original point was just to vent a little about the situation this morning and let some fo the readers here know about the biosafe and primarily to say it's worth practicing your routing physiclly and in the dark.

**hsart** · 03-15-2010, 10:35 AM

For me there are two issues here... protecting children and night intrusions.
As for the children issue, what works for me, is to keep a handgun with full magazine but no round in chamber, free in a relatively private spot by my bed, unlocked, as a two second delay in accessing the weapon from a safe is IMO unacceptable. All other handguns in the house are secure though. Have thirteen year old who absolutely knows the danger of guns, and also the defensive advantage of having one to protect home and family... she has grown up with respect for guns. Once she is older I will keep a round chambered. For now I will accept that I need to rack the slide before clearing the house or engaging the bad guy. Maybe the noise of the slide chambering a round will be enough to scare away the Bad Guy. If not then I know that I have a potentially lethal fight around the corner.
The clearing the house issue is one that needs some practice. Many issues involved here that one needs to address like is there a chance that the intruder will see you first because of a nightlight at the bottom of the stairs, or some moonlight illuminating you from a skylight or ... choose a thousand scenarios, and go through them in your mind for a solution. Maybe the BG is actually a drunk neighbor or sibling!! Know where your blindspots are. Night sights are great only if you can see your opponent or at least a silhouette. Personally I would never shoot a silhouette unless I made a positive ID as a BG... could be a friendly. My solution is a streamlight mounted on my home defense weapon (a Glock 19). With my backup home defense weapon (a PM45) I use a Surefire 6p hand-held light as there is no mounting rail on the Kahr. Crimson Trace does not work for me in a no-light situation as I want to know exactly who I am firing at. In any case I would bet that less than 5% of gun owners have ever thought of one of the home defense issues -scary thought. Know your home in pitch dark, potential floor creaks and all. And train for that time where your family's life is at stake.

**deadhead1971** · 03-15-2010, 11:48 AM

I think corbon has a line of anti-ghost bullets.

I also have a child, and I (rightly or wrongly) keep my loaded guns in my closet on the shelf--about 6.5 feet high off the floor. If I jump out of bed, I can get a loaded gun in my hands in 5 seconds.

I had a situation this weekend. I carry something (PM9 or LCP) in my pocket while I work outside. I was working in the yard this weekend with some hedge trimmers cutting up some bushes. I was armed with the PM9. The trimmers made a lot of noise. Here I am in my yard, on my property, about 50 feet from the edge of the road, with my back to the road cutting shrubs and minding my own business when all of a sudden, I was startled by a solicitor who had snuck up to within 10 feet behind me and wanted me buy $20 worth of coupons. I was mad at myself for being caught off guard when I am usually in code yellow.

**mr surveyor** · 03-15-2010, 11:58 AM

I grew up during the time (and geographic area) where every home had at least one locked and loaded firearm immediately accessable to the father. My grandfather always had an old, well worn, loaded single shot 12 ga standing in the corner by his bed. His was not so much for potential intruders since they were dirt poor, but for taking out the occassional possum he could hear rattling around in his old tin garage in the middle of the night. My Dad, kept his old Model 10 S&W loaded on the shelf in his closet. All of us grandkids and kids were well trained and very obedient when it came to things of such serious nature. But, that was also during the time when respect and obedience were demanded and expected. I personally kept a loaded revolver in the top drawer of the night stand by my bed, and a loaded rifle in an open scabbard hanging on my bed post from the time I got married, until that bed was moved into my son's room when he was about 5 years old. He was well aware that he was to never touch either of my accessable firearms, nor was he to ever venture into our bedroom without permission. Then again, as parents, we knew where he was at all times, and what he was doing. I now have grandkids that are in and out of the house quite a bit, and they have been raised by the same methods. Whenever my son, or now my grandkids had/have friends over, they are made aware of the house rules on where they can, and can not venture, and they are watched as closely as my kid was.

I honestly believe we had fewer firearms related accidents (proportionately speaking) 25-30 years ago than we do today. I think it best to not state my opinions on why I believe this true.

I probably should not have added my worthless 2 cents to the thread.

surv

**Vinikahr** · 03-15-2010, 12:09 PM

With all due respect to the OP, your story does not makes sense and it seems a story line to pitch the product.

**Bawanna** · 03-15-2010, 12:17 PM

I'm keeping a low profile but couldn't let this slide. Mr Surveyor your words and contribution are sound and factual. While you think it best not to mention your reasoning I'm not afraid to say that is modern day lack of common sense. Irresponsible parents having irresponsible children. Common sense seemed to really head into decline right about exactly the time frame you mention.
I was raised in precisely the same type of environment you mention. We kept the novelty and mystery away from firearms, alcohol, tobacco, we didn't partake of any of the wonder drugs in profusion these days. I had no fears about kids handling a gun in my home or others, they knew they could handle with permission but also didn't touch without. In a friends house they would never check out dad's guns with the kids, no way no how.
Probably just coincidence but this is about the time moms starting working, daycares and babysitters were the norm and dinner was walking thru the kitchen on the way to the tv.
Ok, I'm back to the corner.

**wyntrout** · 03-15-2010, 12:22 PM

I don't know about the rest of you, but I was once a kid! I was very curious and adventurous. There wasn't a nook or cranny I didn't investigate, especially if something was "forbidden" or unknown. Unless it was under lock and key and the key wasn't "available", I was into whatever it was.

This is why I'm for teaching kids gun familiarity and safety as early as possible. If he or she isn't dumb as a rock, they can figure out how to push chairs and pile stuff to reach almost anything. And I mean a range trip to see what happens when the trigger is pulled, with maybe you helping them "hold" it to get some idea of the noise and recoil. This is kind of like aversion training, but they get the idea and aren't so curious anymore. Of course hearing protection is paramount and part of the training experience.

Everyone has his/her own idea about things like this, but don't put it off too long. And when they get old enough to shoot, train them to include possible self-defense or defense against home invasion. Once in a while you read about some child saving him/herself or family by being able to react properly, even if not trained. Some of them are pretty darn young, not even in their teens!

I don't mean to preach to the choir, as some of you have taken steps in this direction, while others haven't considered it, and some will be outraged at the very idea that someone would suggest such a crazy idea.

It's just something to think about. JMHO, of course.
Wynn

**Vinikahr** · 03-15-2010, 12:33 PM

I carry 24/7 and all guns that are not in use are under lock.

**hsart** · 03-15-2010, 12:41 PM

One more point, in agreement with wyntrout, that the best defense for children to understand that these guns are NOT toys is to let them handle, shoot, and feel the recoil. Train them young, and include them in a home defense plan.

**B18C5 Tom** · 03-15-2010, 01:20 PM

Originally posted by Wyntrout

I don't know about the rest of you, but I was once a kid! I was very curious and adventurous.

Adventurous?

I was downright sneaky and dastardly when I was a kid. I found pornographic material, a switchblade, cigarettes, and other adult items in "hidden" areas in my home when I was a child. If it was locked I'd try to pick it. My parents did all they could to raise me right, but I was a horribly behaved kid until a few minor scrapes with the law in my late teens sorted me out. Parenting only goes so far - you cannot be with them all the time.

My son is only 18 months old and cannot reach the top drawer of our dresser in our bedroom. Currently he is not even allowed in there without supervision anyways due to an Xbox 360 being floor level, etc. I plan on buying a drawer safe with a numbered keypad for entry. I don't care if it does take an extra 5 seconds to punch the code in - it's worth that risk to save the risk of an accidental/negligent discharge within the walls of my own home. There is no "right"or "wrong" approach for having firearms in a home with children so long as each owner/parent accepts the responsibility of what ever happens.

I'm still discussing plans with my wife our plans to teach our little one about guns. On one hand handing my child an unloaded firearm to ease his curiosity sounds like a great idea, but if he is anything like me when I was a kid nothing short of actually firing the gun will ease that curiosity.

Guns and kids are a delicate matter.

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Had to clear the house this morning

Had to clear the house this morning

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