Burning Question?

[muggsy]

Other than a LEO or someone in the military has anyone experienced, or known of someone who has experienced, the need to reload in a self defense situation. From what I understand most self defense situations end in three shots or less. A curious mind wants to know.

[JustinN]

Even in most LEO shootings, they are limited to a couple rounds. That lady in Georgia here recently needed to reload, since she emptied her revolver and the attacker was still able to flee....but I think that comes down to training more so than the "normal" person being able to take rounds and keep advancing.

I have not heard of a self defense situation where the person needed to reload to stop an attack. In most cases the gun going off is going to make the attacker flee, whether they took hits or not, and if they actually got smacked with rounds, even better. You have to ask yourself, if 5 (going conservative, revolver load) rounds don't deter someone, will 5 more? One of two things should happen, they should run or be dead. If they're still advancing, and you're not putting rounds in places to make them stop, that's a training failure.

[knkali]

Even in most LEO shootings, they are limited to a couple rounds. That lady in Georgia here recently needed to reload, since she emptied her revolver and the attacker was still able to flee....but I think that comes down to training more so than the "normal" person being able to take rounds and keep advancing.

I have not heard of a self defense situation where the person needed to reload to stop an attack. In most cases the gun going off is going to make the attacker flee, whether they took hits or not, and if they actually got smacked with rounds, even better. You have to ask yourself, if 5 (going conservative, revolver load) rounds don't deter someone, will 5 more? One of two things should happen, they should run or be dead. If they're still advancing, and you're not putting rounds in places to make them stop, that's a training failure.

yeah or go to a larger caliber

[JustinN]

A larger caliber works too, but I think even a .22 LR can be effective if you put a few rounds in the right place...

[CJB]

if I could carry a pocketable chaingun with 1000 rounds, I would.

This sort of disucssion is almost pointless. Why even ask? The real question is - should individuals suffer forced limitation on the number of rounds in a magazine? That is the burning question.

This is like asking.... should cars be limited to ten gallon gas tanks? After all, you seldom hear of cars running out of gas, and gas stations are all over the place, so you can "reload" your tank.

BS on that. I want to carry as much fuel as I can, either because I may need to, or just want to fill up less often, or because - the shocker - BECAUSE I WANT TO.

Therein lies the rub. We as Americans enjoy the freedom TO DO AS WE PLEASE. If I want to have 20 or 30 or 100 rouund magazines - I should be able to do so, enjoy them too, for the simple reason that I want to do so.

[wyntrout]

The pistols I CARRY are 5+1+7(PM45), 6+1+7(P40), 6+1+8(PM9) and 6+1+7(P380). I may not NEED the reload, but should the magazine get dropped in a scuffle, or I'm forced to use "un-aimed" rounds at the BG's while seeking cover or escaping, I can put a fresh mag in and do what I have to. 6 or 7 rounds can go quickly and I don't want to hear that click on empty... or the bad guys to realize that I'm out of ammo!

Haven't you ever watched the YouTube videos of actual robbery shootouts?? Bullets are flying at close range... and the hits few... even in police shootouts... using 15-round mags... a whole lot of praying and spraying!

Believe me, you won't have a chance to coolly take aim and squeeze off a few shots.

Wynn

[ripley16]

The only one I've ever heard of involved revolvers and a "New York reload". It was a holdup attempt in a store where shots were exchanged and the shop owner used multiple weapons. Had he started with a high capacity gun, he may not have neeeded other revolvers though.

I know of one other instance that came close. A man was attacked by two men. He emptied his tiny NAA revolver. The attackers fled when he aimed and pretended to prepare to fire at them with his now useless weapon. Close call. People usually run away from someone shooting at them.

[muggsy]

if I could carry a pocketable chaingun with 1000 rounds, I would.

This sort of disucssion is almost pointless. Why even ask? The real question is - should individuals suffer forced limitation on the number of rounds in a magazine? That is the burning question.

This is like asking.... should cars be limited to ten gallon gas tanks? After all, you seldom hear of cars running out of gas, and gas stations are all over the place, so you can "reload" your tank.

BS on that. I want to carry as much fuel as I can, either because I may need to, or just want to fill up less often, or because - the shocker - BECAUSE I WANT TO.

Therein lies the rub. We as Americans enjoy the freedom TO DO AS WE PLEASE. If I want to have 20 or 30 or 100 rouund magazines - I should be able to do so, enjoy them too, for the simple reason that I want to do so.

My question didn't have anything to do with the proposed magazine ban. I asked, because several people told me that they wouldn't carry a Kahr, because of the limited magazine capacity. I've never felt under gunned even when carrying my P380. I've only witnessed one shooting. A LEO put two into the chest of a man with a knife. The assailant crumpled like a rag doll. I'm not saying that is always the case. I'm sure that there are occasions where a shooting victim has survived multiple hits. All I'm interested in doing is stopping the threat.

[Bawanna]

That's a sound plan Muggsy. We civilians are in a little different situation than Law Enforcement and we often times forget that.

We just need to stop them enough to get away or stop them from harming others. We don't actively have to pursue and search for the bad guys.

Same physical response I suppose. We want as quick an end to the threat as possible or we probably should not have shot in the first place.

I carry extra mags mostly as insurance against malfunctions although I'm sure in that instance I'll probably wet myself and just roll away rapidly. I like to think I wouldn't but you just don't know till you look the elephant square in the eye.

I have little faith in anyone who would refuse to carry a Kahr or any other pistol because it doesn't hold 13 rounds or more.

[Tinman507]

when I first started carrying concealed I carried a spare mag.
I stopped that since if I don't end the threat in 8 shots, I figure I'm done for anyway. Throwing more at it isn't likely an option in my mind.

[jocko]

kinda figured the same thing. I am not paranoid either, so I carry all the time but I don't get ramboish over it either.

I carry for ol jocko and his family, the neighbor down the street can get his own gun. Just sayin

[O'Dell]

Even in most LEO shootings, they are limited to a couple rounds. That lady in Georgia here recently needed to reload, since she emptied her revolver and the attacker was still able to flee....but I think that comes down to training more so than the "normal" person being able to take rounds and keep advancing.

Well she did hit him with five out of six shots. It wasn't so much that he fled, he was lying on the floor saying "Don't shoot me no more". Maybe the next time she should use a 357.

[JustinN]

I thought they caught him later, and my impression was all but one "hit" was a graze. I could be wrong and have stories mixed up. In that case she did stop the attack so it was successful IMO.

[ltxi]

I always carry a spare mag with my PM9. But that often becomes awkward and so I then carry a 442.

[JohnR]

I'm comfortable carrying 7+1 in my CW45. I've heard all the arguments for carrying double that much in a Glock, and it's all compelling. But is a standard 14-18 gallon gas tank enough 99.9% of the time, or do you want 24 gallons just in case you're on a dark desert highway with no gas stations in sight? Do you plan for the most extreme scenario imaginable, however unlikely, or do you plan for the most likely scenario combined with what's most comfortable to carry and shoot? I think Kahr's pistiols are a pretty ideal compromise for the average citizen.