Being surrounded by motor cyclist

[jocko]

10-4

Seems to me the undercover LEO's cover is blown regardless. I think an innocent family's safety trumps all other considerations. Poor decision by the cops.

Yeah, B you need to carry more ammo.

on that, I donm't buy the UC cops blowing their cover and loosing their job, There is always more to that story, In this case the video speaks for itself kand there is alot more video that isnot seen by us YET. Is a cop off duty if he is an UC cop? I think not. U blow ur cover u go back to a street job or u get transferred or u do different UC work. I am sur ethe UC cops were not wearing suit and tie's so they had to blend in like the rest, color, beard, cloths, language, bike etc.

I wasin a Panera bread shop this morning in my Harley cloths and bike parked outside and and a brown skinned person came up to me and ask me what I thought about the bikers. I think he thought I would take the bikers position. I DIDN'T. he looked surprised but said nothing. He was a nice brown skinned guy, but because I had biker shirts on and boots etc, I guess he thought we are all alike. I persoally hate crotch rockets. I remember a state cop friend of mine telling me that when he sees a crotch rocket on the highwy, he knows it has either been speeding like hell or that it is going to.

The question that is being asked and investigated is did the UC cops just sit back and let this beating escalate and if so, do u think this will float with the public who u are sworn to serve and protect. Again I amsure this story has not fullly been explained, so I error on the side of anythinbg, but I dod read where the one UC cop said he did nutting for fear of blowing his cover. In this case he should have shut his mouth, for that statement didn't make him a hero andI don't have any doubt those bikers all involved there could not put two and two together and figure out who was a cop and who was not, for again maybe at first no one even knew any UC cops were in thqat group, so all is well for what we don't know won't hurt but once they (UC let it out) then no doubt those bikers are putting names and faces togheter and I bet they know without a doubt who the UC cop or cops was. these are not ignorant bkers. not their first rodeo, corse for one I think it is his last rodeo.

[muggsy]

Yah but the NYPD is another issue.... between the NYPD and the undercovers.

Officially, the cops were off duty. Un-officially, they were UC. NYPD policy - blow your cover, you're fired. And they do it, and have done it. Most notably, they fired one of their own for coming to the rescue of his fellow officers during what turned into a gunbattle.... the UC took the officer's side, got fired, stripped of police creds as well.

Tough world out there in NYC for a UC officer.

Back to bikers. At today's ABATE meeting, a mixed bag. High ups at the Chapter think they biker's ought to have killed the guy for running down one of their own. Ride like a-holes, intimidate along racial lines, use physical intimidation that goes sour, escalate to an attempted battery and vandalism, escalate to flee at any cost, excalate to chase, further vandalism and a higher form of battery...

BTW, the first rider, who broke his leg may have committed an assault. Assault is an attack that does not require physical contact. Battery is the physical contact. If any of the crimes are felonious by the biker, and the rider in a comatose state dies, those charged with felonious crimes will also be charged with homicide - because someone died during the commission of their crime (even though they had no control over it).

Thats the facts jack.

In my book cops are never off duty. Yer a freaking cop 24/7 or your not a cop. I don't give a damn what the freakin' book says. In my opinion that's what separates the good cops from the rest of the cops. I damn well know that I'd come to the aid of a cop if I saw one in trouble and I no longer get paid for wearing a uniform.

[Longitude Zero]

The needs of the many to gain information about a criminal element do not outweigh the immediate need of the one to be saved from death or bodily harm.

I said that death was the only exception for mob/undercover investigations. If you have a problem with this then you have ZERO knowledge and understanding of the threat posed by organized criminal elements.

Whether you like it or not matters nothing. It is the way of the world.

[Longitude Zero]

I damn well know that I'd come to the aid of a cop if I saw one in trouble and I no longer get paid for wearing a uniform.

I too would jump to aid an officer.

[chrish]

I said that death was the only exception for mob/undercover investigations. If you have a problem with this then you have ZERO knowledge and understanding of the threat posed by organized criminal elements.

Whether you like it or not matters nothing. It is the way of the world.

Well, I said death OR bodily harm. So if an innocent person, or even a less than desirable person is about to have their person violated by another person, and a LEO, undercover or not, stands by and lets it happen, then they are just as responsible as the person committing the crime. What about rape? What about hurting a child? What about beating someone w/in an inch of their life?

And I know you weren't necessarily referring to this particular case w/ your comment. But this wasn't a case of some members of organized crime taking action against other members of organized crime. This was a gang of thugs, organized or not, taking action against an innocent citizen.

And, what I think does matter. I pay taxes therefore I expect law enforcement to do their job and do it honestly and ethically. If they can't, they should be fired. Claim it's necessary all you want because of the perceived threat that exists from organized crime, but that doesn't make it so.

We seem to agree a lot on this forum, you and I, but seems we may come up on opposite side of this debate. No harm no foul.

[muggsy]

Been a boy scout all my life. Too old to change now. When I was born most things were black and white, including the TV and police cars. Now I'm living in a world I don't fully understand and I feel sorry for the kids who have to grow up in it.

[CJB]

Just watched a few of the very lengthy uncut videos on you tube from the hemet cam.

Maybe 50-60 vehicles in the pack. At on point, more than half in the video had no license plate, were dirt bikes, four wheel ATV's, other ATV's, sport bikes with no tag.

The only time the group stopped was when cross traffic was already flowing through the intersection. Otherwise, they blew through every red light, every stop sign - as if they owned the pavement.

They did wheelies on the road - galore.

They crossed into oncoming traffic - and actually shared pavement BETWEEN ONCOMING TRAFFIC at times. Not stopped traffic either, but cars doing 30-40 mph in the opposite direction. Balls. They cannot die, they own the road. Or so it seemed, in their mind. Do all this on one wheel, and blowing thru intersections.

They often went around right hand turning vehicles on the right - cutting them off at intersections. Left hand turning vehicles were passed on the left, cutting them off. That was not stopped vehicles, but vehicles in mid-turn. Just....up on the sidewalk, and pass 'em on the right. They'll stop. After all, the bikers own the road.

The more I watched, the more its evident that the bikers thought they were just God damn'd invincible. Untouchable. The road was theirs.

In the vid of the biker "slowing down" the Range Rover - there was no need to slow him down. None. Instead, either, the bikes brake lights didn't work, OR, it was a downshift deceleration. No brake light came on. Very clearly seen.... nothing happens at the light on the back of the cycle. He got hit. He got his leg busted.

Also not seen in the media, after the leg bust, SUV stop, pelting, SUV running over bikers, there is a point where they catch him, open his door trying to get him out of the SUV, but... they fail and he floors it again. This may be where the tire incident happens. Then they finally get him as the SUV is blocked by other traffic.

Sorry. I ride. I rode 475 miles give or take, just this weekend. I pay a lobbiest in Florida to deal with bs laws in state legislature. These biking idiots are just that. They're idiots.

Was said on TV - the biker with the busted back didn't deserve what he got since he didn't do anything all that bad. Sorry, self defense is not pay backs. Its action taken - because you don't know whats gonna come next. At that point.... all bets off, you fight to win, with what you have.

I'm siding still, with the SUV driver, especially after seeing the uncut vids on Youtube.

[sas PM9]

Just watched a few of the very lengthy uncut videos on you tube from the hemet cam.

Maybe 50-60 vehicles in the pack. At on point, more than half in the video had no license plate, were dirt bikes, four wheel ATV's, other ATV's, sport bikes with no tag.

The only time the group stopped was when cross traffic was already flowing through the intersection. Otherwise, they blew through every red light, every stop sign - as if they owned the pavement.

They did wheelies on the road - galore.

They crossed into oncoming traffic - and actually shared pavement BETWEEN ONCOMING TRAFFIC at times. Not stopped traffic either, but cars doing 30-40 mph in the opposite direction. Balls. They cannot die, they own the road. Or so it seemed, in their mind. Do all this on one wheel, and blowing thru intersections.

They often went around right hand turning vehicles on the right - cutting them off at intersections. Left hand turning vehicles were passed on the left, cutting them off. That was not stopped vehicles, but vehicles in mid-turn. Just....up on the sidewalk, and pass 'em on the right. They'll stop. After all, the bikers own the road.

The more I watched, the more its evident that the bikers thought they were just God damn'd invincible. Untouchable. The road was theirs.

In the vid of the biker "slowing down" the Range Rover - there was no need to slow him down. None. Instead, either, the bikes brake lights didn't work, OR, it was a downshift deceleration. No brake light came on. Very clearly seen.... nothing happens at the light on the back of the cycle. He got hit. He got his leg busted.

Also not seen in the media, after the leg bust, SUV stop, pelting, SUV running over bikers, there is a point where they catch him, open his door trying to get him out of the SUV, but... they fail and he floors it again. This may be where the tire incident happens. Then they finally get him as the SUV is blocked by other traffic.

Sorry. I ride. I rode 475 miles give or take, just this weekend. I pay a lobbiest in Florida to deal with bs laws in state legislature. These biking idiots are just that. They're idiots.

Was said on TV - the biker with the busted back didn't deserve what he got since he didn't do anything all that bad. Sorry, self defense is not pay backs. Its action taken - because you don't know whats gonna come next. At that point.... all bets off, you fight to win, with what you have.

I'm siding still, with the SUV driver, especially after seeing the uncut vids on Youtube.

CJB:

Well said!

Agree.

-steve

[Tilos]

This never happens in states that allow gun ownership and ccw.
just sayin'

[knkali]

latest:
http://news.msn.com/crime-justice/da...-nyc-suv-brawl

As Bawanna said, "need more ammo". However, if he would have followed Bawanna's 'advise and shot that first guy, who came into the car to grab him, in the face, I think that would have got everyone's attention. Sad that the mob mentality took over with these guys and no one could quell it in time.

[Bawanna]

I could have and I would have enjoyed it. When we let evil and gang type activity prevail we all lose. Group mentality is exactly what happened here.

Any one or two of them alone would have ran for their lives at the first sign of any threat.

Moral of the story is I need to carry more ammo, lots more.

[BEARDOG]

I could have and I would have enjoyed it. When we let evil and gang type activity prevail we all lose. Group mentality is exactly what happened here.

Any one or two of them alone would have ran for their lives at the first sign of any threat.

Moral of the story is I need to carry more ammo, lots more.

Yeap Col. B...Certainly makes the case to me to keep a spare 32 rd mag for my G26 in the center console....

Heard today...The guy that smashed in the window had no licence, was a career criminal, with 20+ prior arrests, and recently faced a sentence of 25 yrs for drugs+guns ...but a judge gave him 20 days community service instead!

[knkali]

sounds like a guy that needs some face ventilation

[Bawanna]

Yeap Col. B...Certainly makes the case to me to keep a spare 32 rd mag for my G26 in the center console....

Heard today...The guy that smashed in the window had no licence, was a career criminal, with 20+ prior arrests, and recently faced a sentence of 25 yrs for drugs+guns ...but a judge gave him 20 days community service instead!

25 years in prison would have been a cake walk considering what I would have given him.
Face ventilation, kind of gives me a chubby.

[getsome]

+1 Mo A Mo